Whipple or ProCharger

[25 RAGE]

Thinking of putting a SuperCharger on the 496 package that I have. The few people I have talked to said to go with the Whipple its the best, but the sweet set up for the 496 is still in the works, They also said to stay away from the ProCharger because its not very stable. “Shane� over at Offshore marine here in Vegas said they have put a few ProChargers on some Advantages with the 496 package and have had very good reports. I like the location of the pro charger (no hatch mods).But I think I’m leaning towards the Whipple. Anyone have any input on ether one ?

[digginfordollars]

I think in last months issue of Hot Boat, they tested a 28 Heat with factory installed Procharger. Maybe you could get a better deal going through Nordic. Just a thought.

[Rude]

i would assume the two blowers would work the same in a boat as they do in a car. if so, a whipple has much more low end torque than the procharger. the whipple chargers seem to be much more popular in boats but i would think that the low end torque would put a bit of a strain on the drive. i'm not talking from experience whatsoever, just my 2 cents.

[25 RAGE]

D$,
Nordic will not do any after market modifications. Hot Boat dose say a lot of good things about procharger, but could it be about advertising dollars? That’s just my opinion. All web sites that I have found are about trying to sell you their stuff and how theirs is the best. I was hoping to see if anyone out there has had or knows anyone that’s done a supercharger on the 496.
Rude,
Chevy dose have an 8.1 or 496 and they do put a Whipple on it. I was told superchargers act or perform way different on auto & marine motors, something about RPM and transmissions Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Thanks for the input

[STV_Keith]

I'm not really up on all the motor configs offered by Merc (496, 496HO, 500HP, etc), but those two blowers will work differently.

The Whipple is designed more for bottom end/midrange grunt. They will get to full boost by 2000rpm or so. If you have a motor designed to turn relatively low RPM (~5k or so), I'd go with a Whipple.

The centrifugal SC's like a Paxton, Vortech or Procharger all build boost relative to rpm. If you have a more high-strung engine that can turn higher RPM's, then a centrifugal will give more top end charge, but have less in the mid as it's building boost, than a Whipple.

[Rude]

you could also try sending a pm to craig, donnie, and brian (i think). they all have blowers on there boats i believe. aquaholic IV also just had a whipple installed on his 500HP but i don't believe he's had to much "shake-down" time with it yet. a good person to talk to would be bill jr. down at dunsmore marine in BC. he would give you straight scoop on both blowers.

[Essex502]

Purely hearsay but what I've heard is that the Whipple is harder on the outdrive than the Procharger. Also, one of the SoCal custom boat builder's service manager has said that every Whipple install they've done has "blown up". Whatever that means! Their Procharger installs have lived. Could be the install, could be the motor, could be the drive - I didn't ask.

Again, purely hearsay and you need to verify the accuracy yourself.

[kc0000]

think out drive!!! that zing in your ears is the gears going bye-bye..... whipple is good power NOW, pro-charger comes on smoother and slower....

what are the objectives....

Holeshot = new out drive plus whipple
Overall Performance = pro-charger

KC

[HolyMoly]

Whipples go through outdrives for one reason - they make more power and torque for the money. People read the HP #'s and think it is not that big of deal, but it is torque that kills the outdrive, which Whipple's make very well. It is not a design flaw. If you are interested in HP only, then do a procharger or similar. These won't do much for bottom end, but will give you good acceleration through the mid and high range and will definitely improve top speed numbers while minimizing outdrive wear (compared to a whipple or similar).

But the biggest flaw is just matching parts to power. Many people underestimate the toll increased torque on the low end has on the outdrive - and that may be becasue there is a lot less data in regards to torque vs hp.

Personally, I would wait until the budget allowed for a Whipple and a drive upgrade. I think the prochargers are more like hand jobs than blow jobs. Sure, they are enjoyable, but nothing beats a blow job!

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HolyMoly @ Feb. 03 2003, 3:21 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">......I think the prochargers are more like hand jobs than blow jobs. Â*Sure, they are enjoyable, but nothing beats a blow job![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
LMAO! Love the analogy! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[LV-Advantage]

Holymoly Very well put.

25 Rage- there is a guy on OSO with a 27 Advantage that put one of the first whipple's on a 496HO. His last name is Gibbons try to PM him. Search for the thread "whipple 496HO supercharger" or something like that. He said it gave him an additional 14 mph.

[25 RAGE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HolyMoly @ Feb. 03 2003, 3:21 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think the prochargers are more like hand jobs than blow jobs. Â*Sure, they are enjoyable, but nothing beats a blow job![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
ok, now I get it http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[LV-Advantage]

25 Rage- Try this link if it worked496 supercharger (http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=39947)

[25 RAGE]

LV-Advantage,
thanks for the link, I guess I should log in at OSO to see the pics. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Rude]

ok, i give....what's OSO? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif

[25 RAGE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rude235 @ Feb. 03 2003, 7:10 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ok, i give....what's OSO? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OffShoreOnly.com http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Rude]

i suppose they have a message board too? damn, one more sight that i'll have to try to keep up with you guys on post counts http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[digginfordollars]

Rude, like everything else, it's not how many you have, it's what you do with them that counts.

[THOR]

I have a few friends with Prochargers and they love them. They run the minimal amount of boost which prolongs your engine life. I honestly think that PC are the best buy out there. For about 6k you will, more than likely, get about 7-10 mph without the drive upgrades you will need with other more radical installs.

[Donnie]

O.K. here is my .02$

1) Any knid of bolt on blower with no engine mods is a risky deal.You start pressurizing an engine thats not built for it who knows how long it will last.
2)If you install a blower you WILL http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif sooner or later kill a stock drive...bank on it (about 7 grand)
3) Have a reputable engine guy do the install (pay the man)
4) Don't believe the adds...they want your money http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/huh.gif
5) Call Larry Peto @ Larry's engine and marine(520 623 5373) he will be happy to spend some time with you on the phone and give you some good advice.
I am going on my thrid year about 150 hours with a Larry 900hp motor.
6) Buy a real blower!!!! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif roots is the only way to fly http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

hope that helps

[HolyMoly]

I stole this reply from HotBoat regarding roots vs compressor vs centifugal. Â*You will see in Dustin Whipple (OF Whipple Chargers) makes an excellent case on why compressor and centrifugal (Whipple and Prochargers) make better blowers for highperformance recreational use. Â*

It is all about density and heat mgt.

I currently run a roots, but my next engine will have a Whipple.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">at 15lbs of boost with a roots, running gasoline through the supercharger, depending on brand, age, rotor design, would be much closer to 300-350 above ambient temp. A screw compressor would be somewhere near 120-140 above ambient as well as a centrifugal.

To all:
The purpose for supercharging is to raise the density of the air charge, this increases the air mass trapped and then compressed in each cylinder firing. In simple terms, the more air and fuel you can shove into the cylinder, the efficient the engine is (more power).

Blower thermodynamics are much more complexed. First, on roots, the temp rises dramatically as boost increases. Every supercharger has an "efficiency" curve that can be plotted out like a map. This is based off of three varibles, compressor rpm, airflow and manifold psi. There are a few ways to figure efficiency, adiabatic efficency and volumetric are the most common. Volumetric measures how much air per rev. If your supercharger was 2.3L and it had a VE ration of 100%, then you would get 2.3L of air per rev. AE is the measure of the input power to which is wasted in raising the charge temp. Think about this, the blower has a discharge area on the bottom, when the manifold pressure gets positive, where is the air naturally trying to go? Simple, right back through the supercharger. This causes air to be recirculated time and time again which continues to heat up. The longer you hold the engine in positive psi, a roots will never stabilize temp and will continue to grow. Racers use nylatrol strips to actually seal the superchargers up to decrease leakage, but that causes a tremendous amount of power to operate since the surfaces are touching and so on.

So, to answer your question (78Eliminator), its depends on supercharger make, and model (such as rotor design, discharge size and design, compressor size) as well as inlet air flow, etc. Roots doesn't really have a rule of thumb, 7 degrees per lb, thats what you would see on a 15 second sweep test on a dyno, not the real world in a boat or towing in a car. The curve is not linear.

It's very hard to speak in general terms of superchargers for these reasons. Weiand is different than B&M, Kuhl is different than Littlefield, etc.

Thanks,
Dustin [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Call Rick Cameron at Manor Marine in Parker, AZ.(1-760-665-1051) He has built all my blown or turbo charged motors as well as his own T/F Dragster. He can give you the straight skinny on what is best for your application. The guys at Off Shore Marine are OK with stock applications but are a little weak when it comes to performance motors. Tell Rick that Dennis told you to call!

[25 RAGE]

procharger whipple procharger whipple, thanks guys now I’m all f*#ked up……… I know sell the boat and get a bigger one. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[HolyMoly]

Sorry Rage!!

My personal choice is Whipple, but lets break it down into three catagories.

Prochargers(and similar - centrifugal) - Mild performance increase with little or no modifications to drive. Good mid to top end improvements (5 - 15 mph gains from stock).

Whipple Chargers (And similar - compressor style)- Mild performance to serious performance. Definite modifications to drive and other components. Significant gains in low-mid-top end. Dual Whipples are making 1000+ HP.

Roots (671, 871,1071,1271,1471) - Mild to professional performance. Definite modifications to drives in all applications as torque is significantly increased along with HP. Can make 1500+ HP and much more with different choices of fuels. Heat management much more of an issue than the other two.

Rage, from you description, you sound like you are looking for a mild increase. Prochargers are the best bang for the buck in this area, especially if you don't want to mess with your drive.

BTW - Procharger and other centrifugal types of MFG's will argue that they can make serious HP, which is true. The other two are just better suited.

[THOR]

Hmmm,
somebody else here said Prochargers were the best bang for the buck also. ME...



Jeff Clark at clark marine does a good job and he also services everything as well. He is in havasu.

I will be 100% honest here. If I had the money lying around, I would be all over the PC. Why? There is something to be said about beating a guy who wants to race with your engine hatch fully closed and him not knowing what you have. That is cool.

But, if you want radical and total speed with high $$ then go blower. You just cant beat them, but they will cost you.


BTW, a procharged Nordic that has everything under the engine hatch is bitchin. Especially when all the other guys are running mid to high 60's and you are running 75-77.

do it Rage.

[kevnmcd]

So what are you waiting for THOR....put a procharger on that baby! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Personally, I am waiting for another boat. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Essex502]

I know what I'm waiting for...the next boat! Adding more power means adding tabs and external steering if I'm going to exceed 70 (where I am now). The next boat will be the hot rod!

[THOR]

I have the trim tabs just not the external steering.

[kc0000]

I agree, just buy a new boat.... your looking at 6% right now for financing, that is as good as most home loans, if you make your trade in in AZ then you save on the taxes.... buy a new boat and get it built to your specs... KC

[Essex502]

Can you say "L.A. Boat Show"? Starting our homework now! My goal is probably the 2004 timeframe, taking this year to investigate and demo (and carefully measure) the five or so candidates on my list for the next boat.

[THOR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Feb. 05 2003, 09:16 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can you say "L.A. Boat Show"? Starting our homework now! My goal is probably the 2004 timeframe, taking this year to investigate and demo (and carefully measure) the five or so candidates on my list for the next boat.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
DITTO http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[NordicHeat]

I kinda like the under the Nordic hatch ProCharger look myself Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
This is what's going under our hatch on top of my mild 540 as we speak!! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Hope the picture works http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Craig]

Here's some info I posted over on RiverRacerX.

Centrifugal blowers (ProCharger, Vortech) Good boost on the top end. It builds boost exponentially, doubling the blowers rotational rpm causes the boost to quadruple. Good low mount options in the engine compartment, good with F.I. engines, doesn't put as much stress on the drive at low end.

Roots blower, power is proportional to throttle opening. Slam the gas, power right now! Maintains power as rpm increases, but efficiency tapers off on the top end due to heat build up inside the case and leakage past the rotor seals. High profile, yeah baby!

Screw blower, instant power, lower intake temperature charge. Builds pressure between the rotors instead of packing it in the intake. Shorter airflow path reduces the high turbulense, friction, heat and pumping losses characteristic of classic roots design.

Hey Wayne, maybe not with every case, but I think a Quad-Rotor Whipple will make more power than a 14-71. Guy here in town had a pair of big damn motors with Quad rotors in an Awesome cat. Made 1400 horsepower on the dyno. Kept throwing belts though at high rpm. Switched to cogged 14-71's. On the dyno he lost 150 horsepower per motor. NHRA won't allow screw blowers on the fuel cars just for that reason. They try to keep the speed under control. They know if those guys bolt on say, PSI's, look out ET/mph records!

[aquaholicbum]

whipple al the way! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif