454 Mag Motor Project

[kc0000]

Canton Racing Products 9qt Marine Oil Pan

[kc0000]

Canton Racing Products High Volume Oil Pump and Pickup

[kc0000]

Canton Racing Products High Volume Pump and Welded On Pickup

[kevnmcd]

Pass the popcorn and candy! I want front row for this! Keep the pics comin' KC. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

P.S. DOWN IN FRONT!!!!!!!!!

[kc0000]

Oil anyone, priming everything, dual drains will be connected into one with a T for both a side site tube for oil level as well as sucking oil out. engine cradle made from "speed rail"

[kc0000]

a few scratches inside the intake runners to soften the transition to the head

[kc0000]

Dart Pro1 310, not your average installation, we have a gen vi block and lower valve train, with a gen iv head design and gen iv upper valve train, still woking out the details of the geometry, especially when complicated with roller rockers

[kc0000]

one final of the intakes, my camera does not like to focus when up close, sorry

[kevnmcd]

KC-Are you doing all the assembly yourself? Looking good!!

[kc0000]

I'm trying to do the assembly myself.... it has been, dare I say, over 20 years since I built my last motor when I was sixteen for my 69 z28.

The short block has twenty hours on it, retorgued the mains and caps, installed a taller cam retarded by 4 degrees. The oil pan was damaged when the motor was shipped to me so now I have the Canton, very sweet without being too expensive.

Nurse, dremel please..... Rounded the transitions from the intake manifolds to the heads, removed the casting flashings in the runners, rounded the top of the runners for better flow. Need to send out the injectors to be cleaned and synchronized with each other so they all flow the same amounts. Need an adjustable fuel presure regulater so I can boost the preasure to the injectors, the standard ECU is fine, with more air I'm going to need more fuel.

In the process of dropping on the Dart heads, not for the faint hearted, valve train is challenging. Significant weight savings and should create way more velocity on the intakes. Moving from 325cc intake runners to 310cc intake runners. Valves are very pretty. Decked by .040 to bring the compression up from 8.75 to 9.4, should not be a problem for pump gas. Roller rockers on top with a ratio of 1.73.

Bravo I 26P prop is sitting on the floor, ready for action, it might be swapped out for a 28P Lab once everything is dialed in.

According to the dyno2000 software, I should have an immediate 500lbs of torgue with a peak of 560lbs, driving the hp to over 470 at 5000rpms. The cam was retarded by 4 degrees to lift the power curve peak from 4500 rpm to 5000rpm, brings in more usable torque above 2500rpm.

Sounds like all of the internals are built to withstand 800hp, so keeping the redline at 5200rpm and using amsoil, this motor should run for a long time.

My only problem.... the 310hp motor currently in the boat works just fine. KC

[Essex502]

You might want to think about reprogramming the ECU as well. Talk to, I think it is, Arizona Speed and Marine(?) about it at least. They always advertise in HotBoat. Teague said it was important to do that when changing intake and/or exhaust when I was discussing similar upgrades.

Pretty "trick" engine stand! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc0000]

You are correct.... though there are many ways to accomplish the objective.... a calculated fuel to air ratio.

The ECU utilizes a 3D map containing "generic" values to support the math required to calculate the DURATION of the injector. If you plot that map of value you will end up with something looing like terain/topography.... usually the map boils down to the following:
X = RPM
Y = Throttle Position
Z = Fuel Value

Usually the maps are 16x16.

The ecu uses many inputs to calculate the injector duration and ignition timing, for estimated conditions based upon the inputs. The last fuel injection system that I tweaked was my Aprilia Mille-R, took the performance from a top speed of 158 to 178 with tuning TLC, it used no less than seven inputs into the ECU to calculate timing and fuel value.

For max torque you want a rich mixture and spot on timing, for cruising you want a leaner mixture, for top speed you usually have to go way lean. Getting from low rpms to high rpms you need max fuel without detonation.

Eventually the map is used to overcome design/performance flaws in the motor. So....

Changing the one side of the equation will through off the map, more intake or more exhaust will through off the map at one point or another. Changes to both sides, intake and exhaust in equal porportions should not throw off the map too far, but your motor will now run lean since you have a better breathing motor and it needs more fuel per rotation.

rattle, rattle, rattle.....

Adjustments can make a world of difference:
1 - adjust the butterfly so it does close
2 - adjust the Throttle Position Sensor +1 or -1
3 - adjust the fuel preasure
Finally, buy a new custom map from a tuner with a four gas analyser and an eddy current dyno - otherwise with a boat you are just spending money.

A new map changes the topography of the fuel delivery, given the mods that people make and the fact that there is not an oxygen sensor in the exhaust system - keep your bucks and add an adjustable fuel preasure regulator, tune by spark plug color.

Especially with a boat, tune by plug color for good cruising RPMs, roll the TPS and adjust the fuel preasur so you get a rich lower-mid, dark sute on the plug, and good color at cruising. Rolling the TPS places you onto a different fuel slope at a given rpm.

my ramblings.... KC

[kevnmcd]

Wow...Guess you got the a/f mixture thing under control. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Essex502]

You might just put the ECU reprogrammers out of business! My background is naturally aspirated and I haven't delved into the electronic controls of our motors! I know from talking to Teague that the Vortec kit includes a remapped ECU to up the power once the intake and exhaust have been improved. I think they might even include an adjustable regulator with it as well.

[VegasBD]

I have no clue what youguys are talkin bout in this thread, so i thought id just post a completely unrelated pic for all of your enjoyment. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kevnmcd]

Another post by the post whore - VBD

[VegasBD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Nov. 18 2002, 4:28 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Another post by the post whore - VBD[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey dont be jealous cuz i have a pic of an old dude naked! I can share, you want some pics?

[kc0000]

On a BBC, it is my understanding that the roller rocker should weep accross the valve stem, moving in both directions, to make the narrowest sweep possible. But then it should also be centered on the valve stem. This is about as good as you can get.

[kc0000]

the beginiing of a direct fire ingnition, hp comes from timing, the closer the timing the more hp you have. Â*unfortunatly the oem stuff is not very exacting, and the computer uses the knock sensor to back the timing way out on hot days and heavy loads. Â*if that does not describe boating at Havasu then I do not know what does. Â*the trigger wheel will use a magnetic sensor to bring in the exact crankshaft degrees to the direct fire unit, allowing you to bring the timing into 18-22 degrees, where as normally it would need to start at 30-34 degrees. Â* the shaft of the harmonic damper will be turned on a lathe so that it is 1/8th of an inch shorter in length, that way I do not need to add spacers onto all of the accessories driven by the serpantine belt system.

[kc0000]

to get the valve train geomotry corrected, I took an extra hydrolic lifter and placed a valve stem cap inside, effectively turning it into a temporary solid lifter. this way I could accuratly measure the rocker tip sweep on the valve stem by simulating the full stroke of the lifter and valve stem movement.

[kc0000]

this is the direct fire unit, four coils pushing eight cylinders with a "waste spark" design, so each cyclinder ignites at each top dead center. the system is good for 14000 rpm, I think I'm coverd with the rev limiter set at 5400rpm....

[kc0000]

clicked too fast, I hope to have the final few components next week so I can complete the motor assembly

[kevnmcd]

KC-You have all the trick stuff..

[kc0000]

no, just lots of time to do research. the direct fire ignition will be setup on this motor to get the brackets structured correctly and then I'll move it on my current motor, will be interesting to see how it works in the heat of Havasu.
KC

[NordicHeat]

KC, looks like a fun and familiar project. I run a Gen VI block with aluminum heads on my 540 also. Be sure and seal all of your head bolts inboard of your valve covers. Those ProMag rockers are not intended for marine use as I found out. I just pulled my heads to install inconel valves for my blower install and found them rusted pretty good. They rust at any sign of moisture which is very common in the valve train of marine motors with aluminum heads. Probably more so where we are because we're subjected to more hot/cold condensation effects in the high country. I run my oil temps at 210-240 to boil it off but it still gets some. Not a big deal, just a bit annoying. I sealed all the effected head bolts this go around; hopefully this helps.
I try to change oil often too (Royal Purple Race50) but at $135 (15 X $9) a pop it gets expensive.
I'd probably use the Crane Golds or Crower stainless next time.
Good luck with your project.
The picture I've attached is pre rust; look familiar?
http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Dave

[kc0000]

that is a very pretty oil pan you got there! Thanks for the info, KC

[kc0000]

For you 454 MPI and 502 MPI guys...... the ultimate port volume measuring tool - Energiser C cell.

Good port.

[kc0000]

Bad port - not bad, just in need of PORTING!!!

Nurse, dremel please!!!

I have 11 months to finish this motor, so I have the time to take care of the cast flaws and imperfections.

[Essex502]

11 months? Why so long? I thought you'd have it in the boat and on the water this summer! What gives? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc0000]

The original motor is still in the boat. This is my "new" motor that I will install next winter. Pull the original motor on Thanksgiving, spend a few weekends swapping the components, install between Christmas and New Years.

The problem is, there is nothing wrong with the motor in the boat now.... unless it accidently runs dry of oil and spins the bearings!!!! But with that Amsoil stuff in there, that could happen and the bearing still would not spin!! KC

[Essex502]

In our drag motors we used to run the oil pan dry as we were going thru the lights with Amsoil! Used a Moroso oil accumulator to keep the bearings lubed when the oil pan was empty. Never had a problem with the bearings and without any load on the oil pump we gained about a tenth of a second. Amsoil is good stuff.

Sounds like you have quite a plan for that boat!

[kc0000]

Originally I was thinking 10 year plan for the boat.... Building my motor for good HP and longevity. Now, my new girlfriend has two kids, seven and ten, the boat could be outgrown in the next couple of years, giving me all the reason to upgrade to a 28'. Either way, the motor I'm building will help with the resale of my boat a few years from now..... or liquidate my boat now and shop for an older 28' that needs a motor.

The 28' eliminator that was posted on hotboat.net really got me thinking about the long term plans for boats. My bank approved me for the financing a day after that boat was sold. Seriously considering the concept of shopping for an older 28' project boat, leave the 23.6 motor as is and unload it as soon as the project boat is operational.

I could have a 23.6 that does Mach-II, or a 28 that is a great family boat.

[Essex502]

Decisions, decisions... I know the feeling... we are now starting the research phase of our next boat. It will be around 25-26' as that's the biggest that will fit into the new garage at the LHC house. That is until we build the next house with a bigger garage!

[kc0000]

bigger, faster...
bigger, faster...
bigger, faster...

Following your logic..... my garage is 55' long, holds boat and truck and more...... so no constraint for larger boat - one less decision to worry about!!! Thank god for that one!

Good news, the 55' will not hold the 23.6 and the 28' at the same time, so it has to be an upgrade when I buy a new boat.

[BADFISH II]

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Can't wait to meet the chick KC is buying a boat for http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kc0000]

all of the above is now for sale! Going onto ebay Sunday night.

[Essex502]

All that work and now it's for sale?

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Jan. 28 2003, 07:51 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All that work and now it's for sale?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
He has a significant other....need I say more? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Wait till they get married.....his boat will be for sale, too. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kc0000]

Lots of work, lots of time, good amount of money - time to re-coupe as much as I can.... for my time is far more valuable now than it was then! KC

[Essex502]

So when's the wedding?

[kc0000]

carefull.....

[Essex502]

YOU be careful! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc0000]

thanks guy! I'm good....

[kc0000]

move to top

[MOWtown]

why? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc0000]

because I am selling the motor and the MPI, moved it near the top so that I can point potential buyers to the pictures. Also generates traffic for LVHB!

[red_n_vegas]

How much?

[Red Horse]

RnV, that will make your boat MOVE http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Hey, you never answer your cell phone http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[red_n_vegas]

Call 280 0770 thats is my cell ...your calling the wife... http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[red_n_vegas]

Hey come to think of it ...you and her got something going on?...Just a joke.. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif give me a call when you have time.