GET THE WORD OUT KERRY IS A LIAR

[BADFISH II]

IF I WANT TO SPREAD SOMETHING FAST, THIS IS THE PLACE TO DO IT!

If you haven't seen this site, you should check it out

Swiftboat vets for the truth (http://www.swiftvets.com/)

[Red Horse]

Oh yes I have seen it. He is NOT a leader and not someone you want when there are hard choices to be made. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif

[BADFISH II]

What a POS!

Why doesn't the liberal press cover that?

[Red Horse]

I think they are on his side. You know Democrat=something for nothing then work maybe http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[spectragirl]

I can't open that site. BUT I don't really need to see to know that John Kerry is a big piece of Sh$t. Even my 7 year old has figured that out. He will roll down the window when he sees a John Kerry sticker on someones car and yell "John Kerry Sucks" Ya think he's a little Republican?? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[beer hunter]

Why are you guys so hard on Kerry? This man served our nation with honor and is a distinguished war hero. If George Bush was half the man that Kerry is he'd drop out of the race and let the party that deserves to be in power (think Florida) assume the presidency. It really burns me to hear you guys and gals bag on this great American treasure John Kerry. This topic is such BS and all of you are fools if you think Bush can solve ANY of this nations problems with his gang of wealthy business cronies and right wing zealots............




























and if you actually believe I feel that way I’ve got a plastic prop I’ll sell ya that’ll make any boat go over a hundred
http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Red Horse]

Had me worried there for a minute. I was thinking, Mike is an idiot!!!! Glad that you are not http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[spectragirl]

Me too RH. I was thinking "Is he out of his mind??"

[Essex502]

I don't care for Kerry but I don't particularly care for the Bush/Cheney guys either...now I'm in a real dilemma. God forbide the 3rd alternative!

wow,
I just joined the group yesterday and I'd hate to start something with my first post, but!
That ad is made by the same Group that ran ads against Senator McCain in the primaries, when he was running against Bush in the last election. The ads were proven false, after the primary election. Senator McCain's comments regarding the ad against Kerry should also be read. http://www.azcentral.com/arizona....06.html (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0806kerry-mccain06.html)
Even the most conservative person I listen to Bill O’Reilly, denounced the current ads and called them false. With 10 out of the 11 men in the boat fully support Kerry’s heroic actions still after 30 years, maybe not his policies.
I’m writing this while watching my stocks crash, do to a failed economy, loss of jobs and loss in confidence by the American public. It sure sounds like I’m in the Kerry camp, and that may be true now. If I do vote (which I always do) that direction it will cost me allot of $. With the current tax breaks (which I took advantage of) that will be repealed. These are tax breaks that most all of you could not take advantage of. Creating a huge deficit for your 7 year old to pay for. Your children will be the work force at the same time I will be leaving it.
We all should be trying to find ways to improve our lives and our families. Picking Ford vs Chevy, and having strong and blind feeling that way is harmless. I’ve tried to teach my sons (adults now), don’t just jump on a bandwagon without watching the direction it is taking us. We’ve started to watch this one very close and so are the people investing in our Country, which are mostly Republican.
Thanks for letting me vent. I know I’ll be bashed, but on another note.

I just found your forum. I’ve had boats at Katherin Landing since 1993. I just love that lake. I own the houseboat called the “Dog House�. My go fast boat is a 22ZX Donzi (454, procharger,++) Red with a white deck. If you see me or want to have some fun, give me a jingle.

Thanks again,
Chuck http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Essex502]

Don't be afraid to post alternate opinions....this isn't Hot Boat's forum and we're a little more adult in here and various opinions open a good discussion. I too am conflicted as to who to vote for as I like neither the Democratic position (always voted Republican as I identify with their goals and beliefs) but Bush/Cheney leave me cold. Too much smells about this administration...no bid Halliburton contracts, Cheney being asleep at the wheel when Halliburton acquired Dresser Industries and it's MASSIVE asbestos liability and now wanting the government to limit liability, energy policy hidden advisors, energy crisis in California on their watch, high oil and gas prices, dubious intel on Iraq MWD and invading Iraq on that suspect intel...etc, etc, etc... just makes me think twice about rubber stamping this administration for another 4 years.

[ex cracker]

I am also a stout republican but I don't disagree with you Mike. I did see a funny bumber sticker this morning.
KERRY FOR PRESIDENT
OF FRANCE

[BADFISH II]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cneidhart @ Aug. 06 2004, 08:11 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">wow,
I just joined the group yesterday and I'd hate to start something with my first post, but!
That ad is made by the same Group that ran ads against Senator McCain in the primaries, when he was running against Bush in the last election. The ads were proven false, after the primary election. Senator McCain's comments regarding the ad against Kerry should also be read. http://www.azcentral.com/arizona....06.html (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0806kerry-mccain06.html)
Even the most conservative person I listen to Bill O’Reilly, denounced the current ads and called them false. With 10 out of the 11 men in the boat fully support Kerry’s heroic actions still after 30 years, maybe not his policies.
I’m writing this while watching my stocks crash, do to a failed economy, loss of jobs and loss in confidence by the American public. It sure sounds like I’m in the Kerry camp, and that may be true now. If I do vote (which I always do) that direction it will cost me allot of $. With the current tax breaks (which I took advantage of) that will be repealed. These are tax breaks that most all of you could not take advantage of. Creating a huge deficit for your 7 year old to pay for. Your children will be the work force at the same time I will be leaving it.
We all should be trying to find ways to improve our lives and our families. Picking Ford vs Chevy, and having strong and blind feeling that way is harmless. I’ve tried to teach my sons (adults now), don’t just jump on a bandwagon without watching the direction it is taking us. We’ve started to watch this one very close and so are the people investing in our Country, which are mostly Republican.
Thanks for letting me vent. I know I’ll be bashed, but on another note.

I just found your forum. I’ve had boats at Katherin Landing since 1993. I just love that lake. I own the houseboat called the “Dog House�. My go fast boat is a 22ZX Donzi (454, procharger,++) Red with a white deck. If you see me or want to have some fun, give me a jingle.

Thanks again,
Chuck http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Welcome to the boards and you are definitely entitled to your opinion! Thanks for sharing, but with Kerry and Edwards MORE LIBERAL IN THEIR VOTING records than Kennedy and Hillary - I'll take the high road http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif and pray Bush wins.

You talk about stocks crashing - how do you figure? the dow at 10K vs. the high of 12K or around there considering 9/11, constant terrorist threats, accounting scandals, mutual fund scandals, and all the other crap - HELL, I'm glad we're only down 20%! 20% if you follow the markets is nothing but a normal swing, that's why investors are compensated with higher long term returns, because they have to suffer through the crap.

The deficit, something like 7 trillion now? It was around 5 trillion when clinton left office (please correct me if I'm wrong), considering 9/11 I think it's a necessary evil to keep the economy somewhat afloat - and the current administration has done the best job they could have done in light of the circumstances, putting money back into the economy in the form of lower taxes and refunds - hell, I can only imagine how much worse it would have been under a Kerry reign.

Glad you bring INTELLIGENT discussion to the boards, and WELCOME again!

Greg - Lakemead1 http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/music.gif

[Essex502]

LM1 - What's the stock market today? 9871 at the time of this post...it's dropped 450+ points since the end of June. The Dow was dropping prior to 9/11. The Dow was at 8,605 on Sept 10, 2001. Or am I looking at the wrong numbers?

Dow average for September 2001 (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=%5EDJI&a=08&b=1&c=2001&d=08&e=30&f=2001&g=d)

Gasoline and oil - not to mention other energy products - are at all time highs (not adjusting for inflation).

The economy is not yet turned around - even Wal-Mart is issuing lower earnings expectations for the balance of the year.

I hear anger in your email.
What vote did you dislike from there LIBERAL VOTING? I don’t know enough about what he has done to make an honest decision yet.
I use to think LIBERAL VOTING meant, they just spend more money in Government programs then they bring in. The tides have changed. The current Administration is currently doing the liberal thing; at least what I always thought was liberal. The current budget does not reflect the cost of his wars.
What do you think they are going to change? Will Kerry;
• start more wars then Bush?
• have a worse energy policy?
• increase the debt, more then Bush?
• refuse to allow are military personal to end there service, as agreed?
• have a worse Patriot Act, where we loose more of our freedoms. They search and seizure is legal. (and to hide it with a name the “Patriot Act�

I know one thing that scares me about Kerry; he wants to play with the medical industry. I just don’t think with the current Senate and Congress we have, that will happen. But he will try.

What do you think he will do? I’m curious. I am also an upset registered republican.

Thanks,
Chuck
http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif

[Red Horse]

I am military and I think Bush is doing a great job.

Learn these facts to properly debate our poor misguided friends & family
before election time!

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of
January. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month
of January.
That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn
country of Iraq.

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state
the following...

FDR... led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman... finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never
attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of
18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy...started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never
attacked us.

Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives
were lost, an average of 5,800 per year

Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia
never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter
three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple
occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has
....liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put
nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot,
and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but..

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the
Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less
time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing
records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to
destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the
police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in
Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military moral is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

[Essex502]

What I don't like about the Democratic party, in general, is the free ride the tend to support for all of the "disadvantaged" citizens. The current entitlement programs are draining our treasury already and we need less not more. The Dems usually support tax increases and tax credits that seem to go to everyone but me. The Republicans generally support business and not giving our tax dollars to everyone with their hand out.

Now those are generalities but they've seemed true for as long as I've been working and paying taxes.

[Red Horse]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Aug. 06 2004, 11:35 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What I don't like about the Democratic party, in general, is the free ride the tend to support for all of the "disadvantaged" citizens. The current entitlement programs are draining our treasury already and we need less not more. The Dems usually support tax increases and tax credits that seem to go to everyone but me. The Republicans generally support business and not giving our tax dollars to everyone with their hand out.

Now those are generalities but they've seemed true for as long as I've been working and paying taxes.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree. Gotta work for what you have

[Essex502]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Horse @ Aug. 06 2004, 11:29 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
FDR... led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Although the war began with Nazi Germany's attack on Poland in September, 1939, the United States did not enter the war until after the Japanese bombed the American fleet in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, on December 7, 1941. Between those two events, President Franklin Roosevelt worked hard to prepare Americans for a conflict that he regarded as inevitable. In November 1939, he persuaded Congress to repeal the arms embargo provisions of the neutrality law so that arms could be sold to France and Britain. After the fall of France in the spring of June 1940, he pushed for a major military buildup and began providing aid in the form of Lend-Lease to Britain, which now stood alone against the Axis powers. America, he declared, must become "the great arsenal of democracy." From then on, America's capacity to produce hundreds of thousands of tanks, airplanes, and ships for itself and its allies proved a crucial factor in Allied success, as did the fierce resistance of the Soviet Union, which had joined the war in June, 1941 after being attacked by Germany. The brilliance of America's military leaders, including General Dwight D. Eisenhower, who planned and led the attack against the Nazis in Western Europe, and General Douglas MacArthur and Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz, who led the Allied effort in the Pacific, also contributed to the Allied victory.

Is this in error?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Truman... finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never
attacked us. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Didn't we enter the Korean War as part of a multi-national force with other United Nations counties? Not alone like Iraq?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">John F. Kennedy...started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never
attacked us.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

"When the Vietnamese Nationalist (and Communist-led) Vietminh army defeated French forces at Dienbienphu in 1954, the French were compelled to accede to the creation of a Communist Vietnam north of the 17th parallel while leaving a non-Communist entity south of that line. The United States refused to accept the arrangement. The administration of President Dwight D. Eisenhower undertook instead to build a nation from the spurious political entity that was South Vietnam by fabricating a government there, taking over control from the French, dispatching military advisers to train a South Vietnamese army, and unleashing the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to conduct psychological warfare against the North."

Wasn't Eisenhower a Republican? And Kennedy escalated it not started it.

How well did Nixon &reg; get us out of Vietnam...I seem to remember watching a fiasco as the South Vietnamese regime collapsed. A memorable scene was a helicopter crashing from a rooftop.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia
never attacked us. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

"The American troops would be part of a 60,000-man NATO force enforcing a 600-mile long separation zone between the warring factions. Headquartered in Tuzla in northeast Bosnia, the Americans would be deployed in a mountainous, mine-strewn countryside in harsh winter conditions.

Clinton bowed to European influence and acquiesced to France, Britain and Russia's plans for peacekeeping in the Bosnia/Serbian conflict. Wasn't it truly Serbia President Milosevic that the NATO troops were battling?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter
three times by Sudan and did nothing.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Did nothing? Didn't Clinton order the missile attacks on Bin Laden using Tomahawks? Look up August 20, 1998.

We have no compliance by Iran with nuclear inspectors. North Korea is adamant about its right to be a nuclear power and Bush has been ineffectual in that problem.

How's the reserves morale lately after told they might be staying indefinitely?

Just some counter points....I don't necessarily disagree that Bush is better than Kerry might be but I think in your post you are skipping some facts.

[Red Horse]

I will have to look a little harder when I have the time.

[Essex502]

RH...the long post you made sounded like it came from some source...I'd be interested where you got it if it did as some of the information seems to be inaccurate and of course biased against the Democrats.

[Red Horse]

From an email I got. Just threw it up real quick, trusting the source. Didnt even really read it. Last time I do that!!! I can ask though.

[BADFISH II]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cneidhart @ Aug. 06 2004, 11:04 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hear anger in your email.
What vote did you dislike from there LIBERAL VOTING? Â*I don’t know enough about what he has done to make an honest decision yet.
I use to think LIBERAL VOTING meant, they just spend more money in Government programs then they bring in. The tides have changed. The current Administration is currently doing the liberal thing; at least what I always thought was liberal. The current budget does not reflect the cost of his wars.
What do you think they are going to change? Will Kerry;
• start more wars then Bush?
• have a worse energy policy?
• increase the debt, more then Bush?
• refuse to allow are military personal to end there service, as agreed?
• have a worse Patriot Act, where we loose more of our freedoms. They search and seizure is legal. (and to hide it with a name the “Patriot Act�

I know one thing that scares me about Kerry; he wants to play with the medical industry. I just don’t think with the current Senate and Congress we have, that will happen. But he will try.

What do you think he will do? I’m curious. I am also an upset registered republican.

Thanks,
Chuck
http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oh no - NEVER mistake ANYTHING I write for having anger, I was just making a point.

Believe me, I'm not completely thrilled with the way things are either, but given the two evils I will take the lesser. I think all politicians have other agendas no matter what they say. I don't like a lot of Bush's policies either, but I agree with more of them then than the other side.

You're right, the current administration is doing the liberal thing - entitlement spending is at an all time high and I'm sick of that! Kerry voted against welfare reform for one thing - that makes me sick! If you can work you should, but I guess Kerry just wants people to be able to sit on their arses and collect a check that comes from your and my pocket book because maybe he can motivate them to get up and vote?

Why would he make time to vote against the laci peterson law, and say that life begins with conception?

Why would he propose to cut intelligence spending right after the first wtc bombing?

Why is he such a prick that HE along with EVERYONE ELSE bought into the intelligence reports - some of which came from England and Russia, thinks he can rant and rave about getting rid of Saddam and THEN flop on that for political gain? Bush didn't lie, Bush did what any red-blooded american with the balls to do so did - went after what was supposed to be there in Iraq based on several cases of intelligence (including presidents of Saudi and Jordan who told Gen. Tommy Franks in person they knew he had wmd) and kicked ass. Was it a mistake? Maybe, I don't know, only time will tell. I still think that SOB saddam shipped his WMD over to Syria or something - who knows.

BUT, Kerry gets a pass on that one, he voted for the war and turned his back calling Bush a liar when he himself was saying the same things - that we have to get Saddam.

I think both candidates love their country, and both are patriots, I think Bush is the better man for the job by far.

(there's no anger in that, I just feel strongly about some things http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif )

[BADFISH II]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Aug. 06 2004, 10:26 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">LM1 - What's the stock market today? 9871 at the time of this post...it's dropped 450+ points since the end of June. The Dow was dropping prior to 9/11. The Dow Â*was at 8,605 on Sept 10, 2001. Or am I looking at the wrong numbers?

Dow average for September 2001 (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=%5EDJI&a=08&b=1&c=2001&d=08&e=30&f=2001&g=d)

Gasoline and oil - not to mention other energy products - are at all time highs (not adjusting for inflation).

The economy is not yet turned around - even Wal-Mart is issuing lower earnings expectations for the balance of the year.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, you are right. The point I was trying to make is the market does that, that's why you get higher long term returns. The market had to bust - you know it, so do I. My point is that through all of the shit in the last 3 years Bush has had thrown at him, all things considered it is really not that bad. Besides, if you're not into the market for the right reasons you shouldn't be in it period. I never put a clients money in it unless it's part of a long term solid financial plan. If the market going down upsets a client - then they shouldn't have been in it in the first place - that's part of investing!

[BADFISH II]

502 - what's in error on the first one?

[Essex502]

One comment on Bush and the Iraq war...

I think the administration bought into the whole WMD bull lock stock and leaking barrel of oil. I think they didn't do due diligence and thoroughly check out the sources. The Iraq BOZO Chalabi was trusted way to much. This is very similar to what happend on Cheney watch when Halliburton bought Dresser Industries...no due diligence to understand the depth of Dresser's asbestos problems. Look that up ...it's interesting reading.

[BADFISH II]

As far as entering Iraq alone, those terrorist bastards hate us, not the rest of the world (well, maybe now they hate a few more countries), they knocked down our towers and bombed our navy ship and embassy. The rest of the world was essentially unaffected, or minimally affected - of course they don't want a conflict, we didn't either - but risk more devastating weapons falling into the hands of people like Osama just doesn't make sense, and you can't honestly say Saddam doesn't hate us too, and wouldn't want to help out the terrorists. If it hasn't already happened before the war, it certainly would have only been a matter of time before those two hooked up to hurt more Americans.

I'll read the rest now.

LM! – I’m not sure what the vote was for on “Welfare Reform� Clinton and the Republic House and Senate (working together) did a great reform during his administration. Putting strict limits on benefits and length of time on social welfare. In fact our current administration has had to increase those periods because those low life’s who can’t get a job (I hope you all have one) can still eat. They also gave allot of the control to the states, where it should be.

But the “Laci Peterson Law� is a difference on the belief when life begins. Check out this website, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C115825%2C00.html It’s Fox News! A very conservative and a strong Bush supporter.
The bill defines an "unborn child" as a child in utero, which means "a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb." I quoted there interpretation of the law.
I believe that is an opening for all kind of changes in future laws and rulings. Read the article, your daughter or granddaughter may no longer have control of her own body if she is carrying a child. She could be considered killing a human being if she had a miscarriage. Especially if she smoked, drank, water ski, riding in a boat, etc.
Now it does not mean that yet, but they got it started and we’ve all experienced the continuation of laws after something has been established. The seat belt law for one. In AZ it was started as a non stoppable warning. Now you can be stopped for just that and fined.
We have enough laws. I think someone that looks a little deeper into these before voting on them should be commended. This law follows the far right anti abortion agenda.
Thanks,
Chuck

another good article.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,87176,00.html

[Essex502]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lakemead1 @ Aug. 06 2004, 1:38 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as entering Iraq alone, those terrorist bastards hate us, not the rest of the world (well, maybe now they hate a few more countries), they knocked down our towers and bombed our navy ship and embassy. Â*The rest of the world was essentially unaffected, or minimally affected - of course they don't want a conflict, we didn't either - but risk more devastating weapons falling into the hands of people like Osama just doesn't make sense, and you can't honestly say Saddam doesn't hate us too, and wouldn't want to help out the terrorists. Â*If it hasn't already happened before the war, it certainly would have only been a matter of time before those two hooked up to hurt more Americans.

I'll read the rest now.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't claim that most of the Muslim world hates us but they also hate the west...look at what happened to Spain. Look at the bombing in Bali - we weren't even there. I think we inflamed the Muslim world by invading Iraq - not wrongly necessarily but without confirmed WDM evidence and we lost the support of a lot of our traditional allies. Yeah, yeah - fock the French and Germans but did we need to thumb our nose at world opinion? I think the Bush administration jumped the gun. Not to say I won't vote for him again as I did last time but I'd prefer to have a different Republican (someone like John McCain maybe) to choose from.

[beer hunter]

You Might Be A Leftist If...
-You believe John Ashcroft poses a greater danger to America than Osama bin Laden

-You think President Bush lied to the nation but his predecessor did not.

-You believe President Bush is too dumb to be President and Arnold Schwarzenegger is too dumb to be Governor of California, but the Dixie Chicks, Martin Sheen, Alec Baldwin, Barbra Streisand, Eddie Vedder and Jeanine Garofalo are qualified to discourse at length on foreign policy.

-You believe all conservatives are racist, but do not think minorities can never succeed without Affirmative Action.

-You can't decide which is worse: the Patriot Act or the Patriot Missile.

-You believe Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il, and Yasser Arafat were fairly and democratically elected, but President Bush was not.

-You root for prisoners when they escape from our oppressive prisons, but oppose allowing poor children to escape from failing public schools.

-You support every kind of "diversity" on campus, except political orientation.

-You support banning the smoking of tobacco and legalizing marijuana.

-You are enraged by the so-called mistreatment of Muslim prisoners (who have gained weight while dining on their specially prepared Koran-approved meals) at Guantanamo Bay, but believe the world should have stood idly by while Saddam Hussein filled mass graves.

-You have found where the right to an abortion is written in the Constitution but cannot find where the Constitution provides for a right to keep and bear arms.

-You support campus speech codes that ban pick-up lines and amorous gazes, but never spoke out against President Clinton's physical sexual harassment in the White House.

-You applauded Jimmy Carter for talking about human rights in foreign policy but opposed George W. Bush for doing something about human rights.

-You believe that trial lawyers taking 33 to 40 percent of a plaintiff's recovery in lawsuits is just about right, but the federal government taking this amount of our income in taxes is not nearly enough.

-You believe the former Governor of a New England state with 608,827 people is more than adequately experienced to be President in 2004, but the Governor of a Southwestern state with 21,325,018 people was completely unprepared in 2000.

-You agree with Toni Morrison that President Clinton was "the first black President," but didn't criticize Al Sharpton for recently labeling President Bush a "gang leader."

-You believe we could get more truth out of the Pentagon if only Don Rumsfeld were replaced by Mohammed Al-Sahhaf.

-You believe evangelical Christians are destroying America but don't feel threatened by the radical Wahabbi sect of Islam.

-When it comes to violent crime, you believe in hating the crime but loving the criminal.

-You support unlimited appeals for convicted criminals, but believe it is undemocratic for Californians to reverse their earlier mistake of electing Gray Davis.

-You believe U.S. exports of genetically modified foods pose a greater threat to African nations than corrupt dictators like Zimbabwe's Mugabe.

-You believe welfare is a fundamental human right and workfare is a human rights violation.

-You believe religion is a scourge on our society, but becoming one with Mother Nature by merging with the universal consciousness and harmonizing with lunar reverberations will save us.

-You believe President Bush is an environmental criminal for poisoning the water with arsenic, but have never complained about Saddam Hussein's devastating Iraq and Kuwait's environment by setting intentional oil well fires and committing genocide against the Marsh Arabs by draining their wetlands.

-Your car sports the bumper sticker saying that "it will be a great day when our schools have all the money they need and the military has to hold bake sales," but oppose allowing the U.S. military to volunteer recruitment tables on college campuses because of their "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.

If the above has successfully profiled you, congratulations! You have won a one-way ticket to Paris aboard the massive cruise ship, "The U.S.S.R. Michael Moore." Your ticket will be held at the nearest Dennis Kucinich for President rally. Matricular consular ID cards issued by foreign governments will be gladly accepted as identification.

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Essex502]

And your point? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[beer hunter]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Aug. 08 2004, 4:10 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And your point? Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just some food for thought. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Essex502]

Isn't Bush gonna' be the first president since Truman that finishes his term with a net loss of jobs in the U.S.? 1.2 million net loss if the numbers don't change in the next coupla' months?

[TooMuchFun]

Some additional thoughts ...

I am in favor of a strong and vibrant military and for equitable pay and support for those who serve, and for the intervention and protection activities in areas of need; but not for a President who oftentimes acts as the kindergarten bully with that smarmy swagger of his, and for the capricious choosing of where we will intervene and protect versus where we will stand idly by.

I agree that both choices these days are pretty polarized and equal in their criminality and lack of ethics. Anyone who does not think the two Johns are packaged for the purpose of winning versus what they will actually do is fooling themselves.

I have some concerns relative to the state of the economy (no money to be made in the market, outsourcing of jobs to other countries, etc.) and quality of life support systems (education, social security, medical support, etc.), but these challenges are not soley caused by our current administration.

What I have difficulty with, is that neither choice is enthusiastically palatable, with each choice providing lip service to a variety of things so that they will be re-elected.

I wish we had better choices for I fear that neither will actually provide substantial activity for the betterment of our society (i.e., improving environmental conditions, improving job opportunieis, improving educational, medical and retirement support services, improving the economy to gear toward the majority of the population, providing for a fair society where all are treated equally despite varying interests, etc. and etc.) ... with a mountain of actions on each side that supports this contention (examples -- Bush's efforts to take the rights away from those his administrative machine disagrees with -- I'm not gay but I'll tolerate them if they tolerate me, the use of cigs and weed should be equally tolerated if not harming anyone else, and there are those that really need stem cell research to save their lives or those with similar ailments in future --; and Kerry agreeing with anything he thinks will get him elected depending on who he talks to). Too much self-serving political manipulation at the expense of the common man and family ... i.e., folks like me.

I never thought I would say this, and it is alot to say from someone that is a product of the 60's, but folks like Kennedy, Nixon, and Reagon do not seem so bad given the current choices.

TooMuchFun

[Essex502]

Pretty well said TMF. I agree...I can't stand either set. The third alternative is even worse! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[TooMuchFun]

Thanks ... and agreed for sure on the 3rd choice ... with him we would only be allowed to drive canoes and have to put seat belts in them http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

TooMuchFun

[Essex502]

It'd be funny to watch him paddling a canoe with seat belts...having him flip over and struggling to get out or right side up! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[PUMP 'HER']

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lakemead1 @ Aug. 04 2004, 3:49 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What a POS!

Why doesn't the liberal press cover that?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So what do you all think now that this ad turns out to be BS?

None of those in the attack ad by the Swift Boat group actually served on Kerry's boat. And their statements are contrary to the accounts of Kerry and those who served under him.

Jim Rassmann was the Army Special Forces lieutenant whom Kerry plucked from the water. Rassmann has said all along that he was under sniper fire from both banks of the river when Kerry, wounded, helped him aboard. Rassmann is featured in an earlier Kerry ad, in fact, (see script at left) saying "he (Kerry) risked his life to save mine."



Factcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231)

[Havasu Dreamin]

Doesn't matter to me. I'll still choose the lesser of two evils.

[TooMuchFun]

One small point re: lesser of two evils ... who do you think has been facilitating federal water policy toward the lowering of our lake water in Powell and Mead through federal sales of local water to other states and nations? Not to mention the potential for widespread contamination via Yucca Mountain project. All choices thus far have drawbacks in my mind, but from a pure protection of federal boating waters perspective, I'll lean to the Democratic end of things ...

Additional fodder to give me pause re: the current regime: When G.W. was asked about the potential disparity in taxation as one crossed economic strata, he replied, "why change tax law for the rich for they will figure out a way to cheat anyway?" Documented from a midwest stump speech this last month.

TooMuchFun

[Essex502]

What troubles me about the present administration is the close ties and lucrative contracts that have gone to Haliburton. Do you think it was coincidence that Haliburton got those secret no-bid contracts? Then the energy industry ties and the closed mouths about who advised the energy policy. Of course Cheney doesn't want the names out now as it reads like a who's who of the energy companies in trouble - Enron, Dynagy, et. al. Now with the disclosure of who's financing the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth it makes me wonder just what's happening behind closed doors.

That's not to say that I won't vote for GW - it might just be the lesser of two evils - the evil I know versus the evil I don't know.

Just for once I'd like to see candidates for ANY office run on their strengths and ideas instead of all this bashing.

[Essex502]

An alternate viewpoint of the Kerry Vietnam experience:

Swift Boat Veterans are LIARS! (or so this article says.) (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&e=4&u=/latimests/20040823/ts_latimes/officerrecallsboatmissionwithkerry)