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View Full Version : Hardine Marine HP Silencers

kc0000
07-31-2003, 05:36 PM
the slip in, my original tip, the Hardin Marine HP Silencer
kc0000
07-31-2003, 05:38 PM
next up, views of the baffles - on the left the slip in that I am sending back to cpperformance and on the right the new silencer I'm mounting on the Nordic
kc0000
07-31-2003, 05:39 PM
another view of the baffle
kc0000
07-31-2003, 05:40 PM
from the inside looking out - no flappers which is a bit of a let down but I'm not worried
kevnmcd
07-31-2003, 08:06 PM
I will be interested to see how much they help. Let us know.
Essex502
08-01-2003, 05:40 AM
Looks restrictive to me.... http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif We'll hear them next weekend? Maybe GPS before and after?
kevnmcd
08-01-2003, 06:02 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Aug. 01 2003, 06:40 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe GPS before and after?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is a must!
kc0000
08-01-2003, 06:33 AM
Considering that the baffles can not be removed and that the tips need to be glued into the transom.... *no way to conduct an accurate gps run. *I'm going with the information on the website for cpperformance, if it is true then I should not see a loss of performance, maybe a little loss of top end.

My objectives are a quieter boat with minimal loss of hp. *Looking forward to the quieter boat! Bring your db meters next weekend!

Mike I'll back into the cove just like before.

As far as restrictive, it actually does not look bad, certainly way better then the slip in ones. I'll do the math this weekend and post a few more pictures. Nothing that a 1" hole saw could not resolve.
Essex502
08-01-2003, 07:47 AM
Okay...so who's bringing the sound meter?

KC...back it in...that worked pretty good. We should have a "pavilion" setup so we can accomodate all of the boats! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Of, course, that's subject to getting there early enough to stake-out some beach.
kc0000
08-01-2003, 08:22 AM
Mike we'll just use your expert ears as the sound meter.... http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
TooMuchFun
08-01-2003, 08:28 PM
What's the cost on the permanent Hardin Marine replacements? They look good ... agreed on better than the slipins. Hoping to see a post re: perceived performance loss and noise reduction.

My wife REALLY wants a quieter boat!

I have a dB tester but will not be on the lake this weekend.

TooMuchFun
kc0000
08-02-2003, 06:38 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ Aug. 01 2003, 9:28 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What's the cost on the permanent Hardin Marine replacements? They look good ... agreed on better than the slipins. Hoping to see a post re: perceived performance loss and noise reduction.

My wife REALLY wants a quieter boat!

I have a dB tester but will not be on the lake this weekend.

TooMuchFun[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The cost is $539. Looking at the design I'm not affraid of loosing performance.
kc0000
08-02-2003, 09:37 AM
Finished, about five hours in total.
kc0000
08-02-2003, 10:58 AM
another angle
Essex502
08-02-2003, 11:54 AM
The proof will be in the backing into Steamboat's beach next weekend! Nice looking work, KC! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
kc0000
08-09-2003, 09:31 PM
They work, they work really well.

All day long I was amazed at how much quieter the boat was. In fact at full throttle I can now hear the whirl of the out drive over the ehaust, and I can carry on a conversation as well.

Significant reduction in noise and sharpness, no seat of the pants performance loss.

No regrets.
kc0000
08-10-2003, 09:21 AM
If Kurt gets the 28 Heat then we will be able to place our boats side by side to do loudness comparisons.

These silencers really worked out, I'm still amazed at the difference in noise levels, and I look forward to being able to hear Karen as she is telling me to slow down - maybe she won't have to scream so loud.
Essex502
08-10-2003, 05:24 PM
I second the statement on quieter. Really amazing if it doesn't have a performance loss. Quite a bit quieter when you backed in. Those of you who have exhaust exiting above the waterline should consider these.
kc0000
08-10-2003, 07:44 PM
With these silence the NPS won't even look at your boat - for many people they might be too quiet but for me they really work out for the good, quiet with no noticable performance loss at half of the price of others.

KC
beer hunter
08-10-2003, 08:18 PM
KC, did you have any RPM loss at WOT?
kc0000
08-11-2003, 06:16 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Aug. 10 2003, 9:18 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC, did you have any RPM loss at WOT?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No RPM loss at WOT. *Just elimination of the sharp bark, these things breath really well.
kevnmcd
08-11-2003, 06:56 AM
KC - Can't wait to hear it. Might be something for me to look into.
kc0000
08-11-2003, 07:50 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 11 2003, 07:56 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC - Can't wait to hear it. *Might be something for me to look into.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Kevin you might not like them, they do a good job of bringing down the noise, so much that people might not think of your boat as a "Hotboat"..... Unless you added a Pink stripe, I mean Magenta stripe. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

They work well, I want to ride in another boat and come up on mine so that I can hear them. I'm hoping that my ride still sounds good, the db is significantly lower and the sharp bark is completly gone. The NPS won't even look twice....
kevnmcd
08-11-2003, 07:54 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 11 2003, 08:50 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They work well, I want to ride in another boat and come up on mine so that I can hear them. *I'm hoping that my ride still sounds good, the db is significantly lower and the sharp bark is completly gone. *The NPS won't even look twice....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KC - I don't want something that the NPS don't even look...just something that takes the bite out of the noise level. I like the big block sound, but I also like to hear people talk in the boat while in motion. Is that like having your cake and eating it too? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
kc0000
08-11-2003, 08:08 AM
My objective was a quieter boat and I did not want to drop the big block thoatiness nor performance. I achieved the quieter boat and no loss of performance, but I think that the silencers have mushed the throatiness... Either way I'm leaving it as is, I'm looking forward to being able to hear Karen talking to me.

A 1" hole saw would probably put the thoatiness back into the sound - for all I know it may still be there, hard to hear the exhaust from within the boat while the boat is under way.

Kevin, you'll get to hear it in October!

EsSex502, how would you describe the difference in the sound?
kevnmcd
08-11-2003, 08:16 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 11 2003, 09:08 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A 1" hole saw would probably put the thoatiness back into the sound....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How would this help? Please explain.
Essex502
08-11-2003, 08:27 AM
Actually, we all were surprised on Friday as we made full speed passes by a cove we anchored in. HD made a pass by the cove and those of us on shore were astounded to hear how load it was. It sound great at speed. His is a 350 Mag with underwater exhaust at rest but when the boat is WOT the exhaust is fully exposed and sounds great.

You guys might be surprised how loud these boats are when they go by!
kc0000
08-11-2003, 10:00 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 11 2003, 09:16 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A 1" hole saw would probably put the thoatiness back into the sound....<span id='postcolor'>
How would this help? *Please explain.[/quote]
The throatiness sound comes from the uninterrupted pulses moving down the four inch exhaust tubes, if the tubes got larger like a megaphone then the pulses would be more pronounced (separation) an significantly louder since the pulse is encouraged to grow as it moves down the megaphone. *A megaphone is the most efficient way to scavenge the exhaust out of the tubes, yet it has an unpleasant result of amplification. *Since we do not have a megaphone environment the pulse does not grow, and we hear more of the true sound of the motor exhaust.

The baffle inside of the tip works like a wall, forcing the exhaust and the pulse to move laterally through a grate causing reflections of the pulse. *After hitting the wall, both exhaust and pulse travel out of the four inch tube and into a five inch expansion chamber (small megaphone) while traveling through the grate. *Then down the five inch expansion chamber. *Then lateral again from the expansion chamber through a second grate back into the four inch tube (a reverse megaphone). *This chicane is what suppresses the sound pulse that we hear as the sharp bark, the grates are large and offset so flow is not an issue, the reflections of the pulse create a new sound. *

By drilling a 1” hole in the center of the wall we would effectively allow a percentage of the pulse to flow straight through, putting back in a portion of the sharp bark and some of the throatiness. *But there would be a small difference in sound since we now have taken one pulse and turned it into two pulses, the primary pulse would travel through the 1” hole uninterrupted, the secondary pulse would travel through the expansion chamber and would be a micro second behind the primary pulse.

The math behind this stuff goes way beyond fluid dynamics and is almost impossible for us to solve through anything other than trial and error.

I’ve played with exhaust systems on V-Twin race bikes like the Aprilia and the RC-51, nothing more challenging and frustrating than trying to meet the sound restrictions at Laguna Seca without degrading the exhaust scavenging effects of the uninterrupted primary pulse. *Even in the race shop the only thing that works is trial and error.
kevnmcd
08-11-2003, 10:06 AM
Sounds like an expensive mistake if we put the hole in the wrong spot. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif Like I stated before....I just want to take the bark out but leave the throatiness. Not sure if this can be accomplished and still be below the db levels. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/stare.gif
kc0000
08-11-2003, 10:18 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 11 2003, 11:06 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sounds like an expensive mistake if we put the hole in the wrong spot. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif *Like I stated before....I just want to take the bark out but leave the throatiness. *Not sure if this can be accomplished and still be below the db levels. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/stare.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, expensive mistake, not going there….

Unfortunately for everyone, the manufacturers claims of db reduction are not the only thing that is misleading – I’m guessing that almost any type of silencer is going to change the sound of your motor. Everyone needs to listen to a motor with the same configuration of exhaust as their boat, being straight through or s-pipes – listen and decide for yourself.

I’m certain that many people will not do anything until they are cited multiple times…. Unfortunately that is only a matter of time….

My objective is a quieter ride and that is what I got.
Essex502
08-11-2003, 10:30 AM
KC - next time you're out we should try a drive by pass. We need to get a tape recorder (or digital audio recorder) and capture the different boats on driveby passes. It would be interesting to hear my boat as it sounds from shore.
kc0000
08-11-2003, 10:51 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Aug. 11 2003, 11:30 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC - next time you're out we should try a drive by pass. We need to get a tape recorder (or digital audio recorder) and capture the different boats on driveby passes. It would be interesting to hear my boat as it sounds from shore.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
my camera will do video and sound, we can use it to upload something
Essex502
08-11-2003, 11:01 AM
I think that it would be interesting to record the drive by! It would open some eyes to the real noise levels of the boats we have.
kc0000
08-11-2003, 11:11 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Aug. 11 2003, 12:01 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think that it would be interesting to record the drive by! It would open some eyes to the real noise levels of the boats we have.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree.... hard to judge the noise levels as you are moving away from the sound. We still need a DB meter.
Essex502
08-11-2003, 11:31 AM
That would help determine the legality of the driveby test but capturing the sound "event" will also tell us whether or not we're even close.
kc0000
08-11-2003, 12:17 PM
Does anyone have a digital video camera that we can use?

Maybe a water proof housing also?
Essex502
08-11-2003, 01:26 PM
Ziplock bag might work. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
TooMuchFun
08-11-2003, 02:33 PM
I've got a dB meter and will be out on Mead on Sun. the 15th if you want to hook up. I'd be interested in hearing the sound with the silencers.

TooMuchFun
beer hunter
08-12-2003, 08:01 AM
KC, what is the price for these units and where did you get them?
kevnmcd
08-12-2003, 08:46 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 02 2003, 07:38 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The cost is $539. *Looking at the design I'm not affraid of loosing performance.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This might answer your question, BH. I believe he ordered them from CP Performance.
kc0000
08-12-2003, 10:07 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 12 2003, 09:46 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 02 2003, 07:38 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The cost is $539. *Looking at the design I'm not affraid of loosing performance.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This might answer your question, BH. *I believe he ordered them from CP Performance.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That sums it up!

Beer Hunter, let me know if there is anything else that I can have Kevin(info-biatch) find for ya !
beer hunter
08-12-2003, 10:11 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Beer Hunter, let me know if there is anything else that I can have Kevin(info-biatch) find for ya ![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thanks KC, and I think that is info/computer biatch http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
kevnmcd
08-12-2003, 10:34 AM
KC and BH..... *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Just here to help everyone out! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
beer hunter
08-12-2003, 10:39 AM
Thanks again Kev http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
kc0000
08-12-2003, 03:12 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 12 2003, 11:34 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC and BH..... *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Just here to help everyone out! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
posting whore..... old school brown noser..... thread hi-jacker..... trailer tire changer..... information biatch.....

is there anything you don't get your hands into..... what a guy !!
kc0000
08-12-2003, 03:13 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Aug. 12 2003, 09:01 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC, what is the price for these units and where did you get them?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
BH, so are you considering a set of these?
kevnmcd
08-12-2003, 03:18 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 12 2003, 4:12 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">posting whore..... * old school brown noser..... * *thread hi-jacker..... * * trailer tire changer..... * information biatch.....

is there anything you don't get your hands into..... * what a guy !![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey KC...... http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
kevnmcd
08-12-2003, 03:20 PM
I might be considering these
http://www.cpperformance.com/images/410/410-285302.JPG

Since I have the length, they maybe a cleaner fit.....besides, they are cheaper. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *They should be the same as yours, KC...just the inline version.
Check them out (http://www.cpperformance.com/detail.asp?product_id=410-285402)
beer hunter
08-12-2003, 03:35 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 12 2003, 4:12 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 12 2003, 11:34 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC and BH..... *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Just here to help everyone out! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
posting whore..... * old school brown noser..... * *thread hi-jacker..... * * trailer tire changer..... * information biatch.....

is there anything you don't get your hands into..... * what a guy !![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thanks for everything Kevin, again http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
beer hunter
08-12-2003, 03:36 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 12 2003, 4:13 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Aug. 12 2003, 09:01 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC, what is the price for these units and where did you get them?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
BH, so are you considering a set of these?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
kc0000
08-12-2003, 06:14 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 12 2003, 4:20 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I might be considering these
http://www.cpperformance.com/images/410/410-285302.JPG

Since I have the length, they maybe a cleaner fit.....besides, they are cheaper. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *They should be the same as yours, KC...just the inline version.
Check them out (http://www.cpperformance.com/detail.asp?product_id=410-285402)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
cheaper, but mine look better!
kevnmcd
08-12-2003, 09:40 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 12 2003, 7:14 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">cheaper, but mine look better![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How so? You will never see these from the outside! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
beer hunter
08-13-2003, 07:11 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 12 2003, 4:20 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I might be considering these
http://www.cpperformance.com/images/410/410-285302.JPG

Since I have the length, they maybe a cleaner fit.....besides, they are cheaper. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *They should be the same as yours, KC...just the inline version.
Check them out (http://www.cpperformance.com/detail.asp?product_id=410-285402)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was considering some of these myself Kev http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif The're cheep, biodegradable and easy to rebuild http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Beer (post whoring with bad humor)Hunter
kevnmcd
08-13-2003, 07:57 AM
Very funny, jr. Post Ho! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
kc0000
08-13-2003, 10:46 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 12 2003, 10:40 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 12 2003, 7:14 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">cheaper, but mine look better![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How so? *You will never see these from the outside! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You actually have a point here....

Your boat will be so quiet that people will be wondering if you have a fuel efficient small block in the engine bay.... At least with mine they will be able to see that I'm taming the roar of a monster tucked within! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
kc0000
08-13-2003, 10:47 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 13 2003, 11:46 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 12 2003, 10:40 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">cheaper, but mine look better!<span id='postcolor'>
How so? *You will never see these from the outside! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/quote]
You actually have a point here....

Your boat will be so quiet that people will be wondering if you have a fuel efficient small block in the engine bay.... *At least with mine they will be able to see that I'm taming the roar of a monster tucked within! * * http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now your worried, aren't you!
kevnmcd
08-13-2003, 10:49 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 13 2003, 11:47 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 13 2003, 11:46 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">cheaper, but mine look better!<span id='postcolor'>
How so? *You will never see these from the outside! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
You actually have a point here....

Your boat will be so quiet that people will be wondering if you have a fuel efficient small block in the engine bay.... *At least with mine they will be able to see that I'm taming the roar of a monster tucked within! * * http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif[/quote]
Now your worried, aren't you![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Not really....it is called a "Sleeper"! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif They will know what I have when I blow right past them. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
kc0000
08-13-2003, 12:02 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 13 2003, 11:49 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 13 2003, 11:47 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">cheaper, but mine look better!<span id='postcolor'>
How so? *You will never see these from the outside! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
You actually have a point here....

Your boat will be so quiet that people will be wondering if you have a fuel efficient small block in the engine bay.... *At least with mine they will be able to see that I'm taming the roar of a monster tucked within! * * http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Now your worried, aren't you![/quote]
Not really....it is called a "Sleeper"! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *They will know what I have when I blow right past them. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Over the past few nights we have been reviewing the Lake Powell pics with relatives, each time we review the story gets better and better. Your boat seems to be gaining 5mph with each night!!
kevnmcd
08-13-2003, 12:10 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ Aug. 13 2003, 1:02 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Over the past few nights we have been reviewing the Lake Powell pics with relatives, each time we review the story gets better and better. *Your boat seems to be gaining 5mph with each night!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Wooohooooo! What speed am I at now? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KC & Karen
08-13-2003, 07:21 PM
Tonight you hit 45mph..... not bad for the tuginator!
kevnmcd
08-13-2003, 08:41 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC &amp; Karen @ Aug. 13 2003, 8:21 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tonight you hit 45mph..... *not bad for the tuginator![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well....it was nice while it lasted. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif It doesn't matter what you say my speed it, as long as I pull away from you on the water. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
KC & Karen
08-14-2003, 01:57 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 13 2003, 9:41 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC & Karen @ Aug. 13 2003, 8:21 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tonight you hit 45mph..... *not bad for the tuginator![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well....it was nice while it lasted. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif *It doesn't matter what you say my speed it, as long as I pull away from you on the water. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That 502 produces a lot more power than advertised, you always will pull away from me, but Kurt is going to give you a run for the beer!
beer hunter
08-14-2003, 02:48 AM
Kevin, in the right conditions I'm sure your boat could hit 74 or 75 on GPS, if not more http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
kevnmcd
08-14-2003, 07:40 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC &amp; Karen @ Aug. 14 2003, 02:57 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.....but Kurt is going to give you a run for the beer![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Yeah, right! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
kevnmcd
08-14-2003, 07:41 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Aug. 14 2003, 03:48 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kevin, in the right conditions I'm sure your boat could hit 74 or 75 on GPS, if not more *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We will have to test that out next time.
TooMuchFun
08-23-2003, 03:55 PM
Was stopped by Nevada Fish and Game today in the Lake Mead Marina entrance. They were patrolling the marinas for sound and had the appropriate high end calibrated equipment complete with measurement strings for behind the boat. Specifics follow for those of you interested. I hate to buy mufflers/silencers but I guess I may have to:

1. Very professional officer. Had us lined up basically ... a large Fountain, two Hallets, and me. Had to go through the complete safety inspection (fire extinguishers, life vests, safety kit, throwables, and etc. according to CG code).

2. I tested at 96dBs on my volvo 600DPX, the Fountain was 98 with a twin 502 setup and the Hallett was 103 with a blown Plaff motor of undetermined hp. The officer was pretty nice about it and said that if I was even close, say 90-91, he would have warned me only and that they are trying to be flexible on the 88dB rule but if you are 8-10 over or more, he had to issue a ticket. He even apologized for having to write the ticket and explained that the enforcement is being handed down from his supervisors and offered to let me talk with them if I liked.

3. $107.00 fine. When I asked about the inconsistency of stopping folks and that I had gone by the NPS a few times today, he explained that the Fish and Game are now licensed noise testers and the NPS will call on the Fish and Game folks to do the testing and ticket writing if they see a boat that may be in violation ...

4. I asked about the status of noise laws going into effect for NV, and he said that they were in effect ... <88dBs from 4' out and 5' up from transom at idle, and <75dBs from 50 away when cruising.

5. I asked about the structure of repeated offences and he replied that they had authority to increase the fines based on individual officer decisions, and that multiple offenders would be followed back to the Marina and have their boat taken off the lake, and forcibly impounded if the owner was not compliant.

6. I asked when they typically would begin their marina patrols and he said they are now set up to patrol for noise from about 8am until well after dark, primarily at the marina entrances due to safety issues re: not being able to hear when on the loading docks, and complaints from the larger boat owners in the slips.

7. I asked about Labor Day weekend and he explained that they would be out in force with multiple stations set up for noise and OUI.

Downer to the end of a beautiful day out there ...

TooMuchFun
titties and beer
08-24-2003, 05:43 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Aug. 14 2003, 03:48 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kevin, in the right conditions I'm sure your boat could hit 74 or 75 on GPS, if not more *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
YA,MAYBE DOWN HILL http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif or behined his truck http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Trouble Maker
08-24-2003, 08:17 AM
So, they check your boat before you even put it in the water?? What, do they have a water hose and various hookup attachments for you to use? Once they check you the first time and you check good you should get some sort of card so they don't have to waste your time again.

Fuck, what's the world coming too when you can't go out on a Sunday and make a bunch of noise.

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
titties and beer
08-24-2003, 08:27 AM
or maybe a sticker for your winsheld so they LEAVE US ALONE http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
TooMuchFun
08-24-2003, 09:08 AM
Agreed with Trouble Maker, the world is changing ... what was frustrating to me was that he could not keep up with the traffic. Three of us were checked and ticketed just out beyond the docks in the no wake zone, and while that was going on, at least 4-5 other boats as loud or louder than ours were idling by to get out of there as quickly as possible. When I said things like, "there goes another one, hope you catch up with him as well to be consistent in your fine distribution", or "how are you going to keep up with the stopping and ticket writing?", response was, "if I finish with you folks in time I will". Wrong place and wrong time and you get ticketed ...

They are set up to check as you put in and idle out to the lake; and as you are idling back to put out. He got me on the way back in at the end of the day.

He made me fire up, waited for the water to come out of the exhausts, and then checked. Took about a 1/2 hour as he did two tests, made me shut down in between, drifted about while checking gear and etc., and was involved in checking me out on the radio pretty thoroughly and was involved in the put together and use of his new dB meter equipment.

It's now clear that these guys have been given a written procedure to follow, that this procedure is on file with supervisors and legal at the courthouse, and that if they follow procedure they intend to enforce the fines and potential removal and impound of boats repeatedly not in compliance.

Was going to be back out today, but the incident has inhibited that activity ... I'm inclined to keep testing their enforcement to see how they manage boat removal from the lake, but the wife is not ... I think I'm going to go to Henderson court and see if I can get it thrown out, and in the meantime carry a pre-dated bill of sale with me for "backordered" HP Silencers from Offshore Marine ... then test the lake situation a few more times before giving up and installing silencers.

TooMuchFun
titties and beer
08-24-2003, 10:33 AM
ITS SUCH BULLSHIT,we do not set in the marina we go out to the lake so if your not set'n there reving it to 4000,i don't know its always something http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
KC & Karen
08-24-2003, 06:21 PM
Wow, we are headed to Lake Mead next weekend.

The world is changing.... I have no regrets of my purchase of the HP Silencers. This weekend as we headed up Havasu into the gorge, being able to carry on a conversation with Karen was very sweet!

Later in the day we tied the two Nordics side by side, Kurts new ride and ours - we both have a 496HO with S-Pipes. Everyone in the group was haning out in the water behind our boats, so half way through the day I jumped into the boat and we did a sound test without db meters. The HP Silencers make a significant difference in the noise levels at idle.

Kurt and Leo need to jump into this thread and offer their opinions of the sound of our boat. The NPS / Game and Fish won't look twice.
No strESSEX
08-24-2003, 07:28 PM
We obviously didn't have a DB meter with us but there was definetly a noticeable difference between the two. A good deal of the higher frequencies where taken out with the silencers.

I'm sure you'll have no problems, KC, and maybe even more importantly, you guys can carry on a nice conversation while cruising. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Trouble Maker
08-25-2003, 12:46 AM
Why would I want to have a conversation with my wife?? Powering up the lake is the one time I don't have to listen to her...........

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
beer hunter
08-25-2003, 02:39 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Trouble Maker @ Aug. 25 2003, 01:46 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why would I want to have a conversation with my wife?? *Powering up the lake is the one time I don't have to listen to her...........

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
LMAO http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Essex502
08-25-2003, 05:20 AM
TMF - How does your exhaust exit? Above the water line or below?
TooMuchFun
08-25-2003, 06:47 AM
Above ... and there is an 18" +/- deck above the exhausts which may or may not amplify the sound as it is trapped at the stern.

Makes a difference ... I moved the exhaust holes up on the transom when I installed the new engine so that the header/risers setup had less bend to it in the engine compartment ... anything to maximize horsepower and not restrict flow. The previous engine ... Volvo's version of the 496HO ... had the exhaust tips set below the water line. Seemed to make a difference at idle.

TooMuchFun
Essex502
08-25-2003, 06:56 AM
As discussed earlier...I was really surprised that the 496HO was soooo loud (KC's Nordic) compared to my 502. My exits under the swim step (and waterline) while his was above the waterline. I guess it's only a matter of time before the testing comes to Havasu and we'll see if it passes. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
TooMuchFun
08-25-2003, 07:41 AM
For KC0000 ... what is your thought on the difference between the slip in and permanent silencer from Hardin Marine ...

The folks at Offshore are recommending that I go with the slip ins ... quoted a price of $150 +/- and said that they bolt on inside and I won't be able to tell from looking at the tips that they are in there? I need to know what I am getting for the additional monies on the permanent install.

The Cyclone series also sells permanent ones for 500+ HP, and then permanent ones for 600+ HP that come with a 4" hose connection?

Familiar with the difference across 500-600hp versions? Is the hose to continue with the water jacket for cooling purposes? I've already got hose connected from the KE headers to the stainless risers. The risers are about a foot long and connect to the existing exhausts.

Last question ... any potential problems with back pressure due to restriction when over 600hp when these are installed?

Just trying to gather as much info. as possible before I purchase and install.

TooMuchFun
KC & Karen
08-25-2003, 07:58 AM
TMF, a quick responce... * * sorry to hear about that fine...

Slip-In = NO
HP Silencers 500+hp = YES for 4" exhaust
HP Silencers 600+hp = probably, but only if you have a 4.5" exhaust

Almost all of our boats have 4" exhaust.

If you look into the details of this thread and the other regarding my trials with Hardine Marine you'll find good info and pictures.

The Slip-In is too restrictive and is rated for 425hp, it sits inside of your 4" tips only if you have a full five inches for the insert - so if you have internal flappers in your tips then it will not work unless you remove the internal flapper. *Then the slip-in requires a bolt to hold it in place, once you drill a hole through your tip for the bolt you probably will not be able to use a Salsbury flapper on the outside, if you drill the hole for the bolt on the engine side then you will have problems puting the hose back on because the bolt will be in the way.

The grate of the Slip-In is small and restrictive and since it is inserted inside 4" then there is very little area for expansion. *The HP Transom Mount has a larger grate that is more efficient to support flow - additionally the outside of the tip is 5" so you have an expansion chamber that really supports flow.

Do not waist your time with the Slip-In - either get the Transom Mount or the In-Lines.

The pictures in the beginning of this thread tell the entire story.
KC & Karen
08-25-2003, 08:02 AM
TMF,

Check out CPPerformance, they have good prices on their website.
TooMuchFun
08-25-2003, 08:39 AM
KC ... thanks for the good detailed info. I will probably go with the 4.5" straight cyclone series with 4" hose connection as it gives you more flow and is compatible with the 4" tip holes I currently have. They're $575 a pair.

This way as I tinker with additional hp I am ok on the silencer install.

TooMuchFun
kevnmcd
08-25-2003, 08:42 AM
TMF - Keep us informed on how it goes. I was looking at putting those in as well. So I am curious if they get you below the limit.
KC & Karen
08-25-2003, 09:20 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Aug. 25 2003, 09:42 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">TMF - Keep us informed on how it goes. *I was looking at putting those in as well. *So I am curious if they get you below the limit.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Kevin, these are so quiet that you probably won't like them - the nps will not even turn their head to listen to your boat with these on.....
TooMuchFun
08-25-2003, 09:26 AM
Will do ... ordered them today. My engine builder at Innovation Marine says that they will make the ECU run the engine a little richer and I may or may not lose 50-100 rpms off the top end, potentially translating into a 1-3 mph loss.

CPPerformance/Hardin Marine promises no hp or torque loss and guarantees that I will drop below the 88dB limit. My engine builder recommended that to ensure -0- hp and torque loss the only mufflers he has worked with that actually meet this guarantee AND cut the necessary dBs are either Lavorsi or Gaffrig Superflow products, but they are bolt on products that are really long out of the transom and much wider (up to 8-10 inches in diameter) = ugly, expensive, and may not fit the space.

TooMuchFun

[B]
Essex502
08-25-2003, 09:38 AM
I've forgotten who on the board bought a decible meter...anybody?
KC & Karen
08-25-2003, 09:47 AM
Our boat will be on Lake Mead this weekend if anyone wants to hear/see the silencers.
kevnmcd
08-25-2003, 10:09 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC & Karen @ Aug. 25 2003, 10:47 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Our boat will be on Lake Mead this weekend if anyone wants to hear/see the silencers.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Be anxious to hear if you get tested or not. *Give us an update when you get back.

P.S. Won't be able to hear or see it....going to Catalina this weekend. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif You guys have fun though.
beer hunter
08-25-2003, 10:12 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">going to Catalina this weekend. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah baby http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
TooMuchFun
08-25-2003, 09:36 PM
I'll be on Mead Sun. and/or Mon. for most of the day(s) without the silencer installs ... they are back ordered. Would be interested in hearing the sound from those who have installed. KC and Karen let me know days out and I will try to connect. I typically put in at Lake Mead Marina and head to Sandy Cove, the narrows, and beyond ... Hallett Beach or toward Big Sandy beyond Temple Bar.

I also will have a dB meter on board for those interested in testing. My meter reads same as Fish and Game that stopped me and checked noise.

TooMuchFun
Tee
08-27-2003, 12:24 PM
TMF
Did they say how long they would be on BO? I need to seriously look into a set I guess. My small block wouldn't meet db so I am sure the 468 won't http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/insane.gif
beer hunter
08-27-2003, 03:39 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> My meter reads same as Fish and Game that stopped me and checked noise.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Which meter and what do they cost? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
TooMuchFun
08-27-2003, 07:22 PM
For Beer Hunter -- Mine's a Radio Shack digital ... 60 bucks +/- I think. They had two models.

Fish and Game looks like they spent 3-400 on a calibrated model (can't remember the brand -- but someone posted what it was elsewhere on the site). He had all in a case with multiple parts to put together to use, and strings attached to measure distance from the transom.

For Tee -- A week or three on back order. I had Shane at Offshore order all for me once I figured out what I wanted, and will have them do the install. I could do myself and avoid the expense, but when I screw up and they either leak or are not sealed properly I would not have anyone to go back on for a redo. They were talking an hour or two for labor. Once I get away from work Thu. or Fri. I am going to Offshore to pick up an invoice to carry with me this weekend in case I am stopped. My biggest potential frustration is if Fish and Game attempts to in their words "terminate my voyage". I think really early out and late back may be the best plan.

TooMuchFun
Essex502
08-28-2003, 11:18 AM
BH - Here's a source for the calibrated/certified sound meters:See this (http://www.extech.com/)
KC & Karen
09-05-2003, 01:51 PM
TMF, did you get your silencers?
Red Horse
09-05-2003, 01:57 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ Aug. 27 2003, 8:22 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think really early out and late back may be the best plan.

TooMuchFun[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have seen them more (NPS) right at dark.

I think they are after the light violations and the drunks.

I understand about terminating voyage. I more than likely would get into some kind of legal trouble. If you car is too loud, they ticket you and dont impound it. I would be livid to say the least
http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/glare.gif
TooMuchFun
09-05-2003, 04:07 PM
KC -- Got a pair of permanent Hardin silencers for >600hp engines. 4" insert into the transom and expand into 4 1/2" chamber with air/water rerouting same as lower hp silencer systems. Sent them back today. After inspection, the way they are set up (with the round metal disk in the center and very little flow around through the expansion chamber) they would potentially cause significantly greater back pressure, probably cut rpms 1-200 and power at WOT, and also add to richer running engine and potential premature spark plug fouling. They pretty much would destroy the added power gained by my Keith Eickert Headers and straight through stainless risers with no flow impedence out the tips. My engine builder is recommending against install, as they may even impact how my EFI is set up and may impact more if and when I upgrade to Brodix heads and longer stem valves to add hp. Looked into the switchable systems but they are illegal and VERY expensive (approx. 1,500-1,800 for the parts and install). OEM Custom Marine out of Neenah Wisconsin (920 722-7084) is working on a permanent muffler technology that will not cut rpms or cause the back pressure problem and may have a system out in the next couple months or so. They're currently testing with some 650 hp engines. I'm going to wait awhile ...

Red Horse -- seems fairly random in terms of potential ticketing. I was out all day Mon. labor day racing around and never crossed paths with NPS or Fish and Game. I'm going to take my chances awhile longer, carry my receipt for returned silencers on board with me to prove intent, and take it to the court to hopefully get the first ticket waived, and keep exploring silencer types as the technology for higher hp engines develops. It seems the same as wanting blowers for the 496 engine series, it takes awhile to develop the proper technology to match the engine setup. From what I can gather, for engines below 420 hp the current permanent silencers do not impede performance noticeably, however, with over 600 hp alot of the hp generated is due to the heads and valves, headers, and direct flow through of the risers and exhaust setup. I'm hyper sensitive after spending thousands of dollars on a high performance engine to hurt it at all due to installing the wrong silencer setup.

I'll keep posting as I lock into a potential silencer system and/or the water cops crack down on me again ... like you, if they move on trying to impound my boat real altercation begins ... but I do not want to be the test case for that either.

TooMuchFun
KC & Karen
09-06-2003, 05:29 PM
"Keith Eickert Headers and straight through stainless risers "

Forget me..... That is awesome, those have to be the sweetest headers available - all a matter of money.

You have hard times in front of you - performance vs. compliance.

KC
TooMuchFun
09-07-2003, 10:01 AM
KC -- I'm in love with the setup, and that is the challenge as I am at this point unwilling to compromise on the performance side given how much time, effort, and money went into getting it right.

KC -- I'm hoping OEM will develop something soon and am also going down to the Advantage Regatta the end of Sept. to jawbone with those folks and mechanics from all over who show up and who might have more ideas on the issue.

Will keep posting as I learn more, but you're right on the performance vs. compliance challenge with no answer in sight at present, and with needing a boat over 28' for my family of 6 + friends and wanting to perform close to the triple digits, you really need the big hp engines.

Even if I upgrade to the new Advantage 34' PartyCat to accommodate a dual engine setup, or go to an over 30' v hull, you still need twin 650s or above to run like you want to ... so the noise challenge does not go away.

Innovation Marine has a setup that cures the challenge, but they are a bit over a foot long out the transom and 8-10 inches in diameter ... I would have to cut the transom and reroute the risers and etc. to accommodate ... ugly and WAY too expensive to cure the challenge.

What's a performance lover to do? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif Let me know if you learn/hear of anything new on the subject.

TooMuchFun
aquaholicbum
09-08-2003, 07:00 AM
shotgun silencers are your answer, around 5-600 bucks
TooMuchFun
09-08-2003, 09:36 AM
Aquaholicbum -- thanks for info. I've investigated the shotgun silencers through CPPerformance. They don't cut decibels enough for my needs, they open up too soon for flow with my engine application, and I don't like how they are mounted as an add on to my existing tips.

An option I am considering are the silent choice from CPPerformance ... unlike most of these type applications, the hydraulics that run the switch are inside the transom so the tips on the stern look identical to original and I won't need to recut the transom. Would keep me sound legal below 3000rpms. Down side is cost.

Am also waiting on OEMs development over the next few weeks.

TooMuchFun
kevnmcd
09-08-2003, 03:25 PM
TMF - Make sure that the Silent Choice is a legal option. I would be a bummer to spend that kind of cash and still get tickets. I believe that you still need to be below the limit (85 db) at WOT from a distance of 50 feet. So if they hear you they will/can still pull you over. Just my .02 http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
TooMuchFun
09-08-2003, 08:04 PM
kevnmcd -- good point and agreed ... waiting on OEM developments and also going down to Havasu Sept. 26-28 to knock around at the Advantage Regatta and talk to other folks re: permanent silencer options. Cost and potential legality issues inhibit the switchable option at present.

TooMuchFun
Tee
09-09-2003, 05:40 AM
TMF
Have you heard of these guys?
http://www.hpisilencers.com/
They have an inline. I haven't talked to them yet. Not close enouph to purchasing to bother them.
Laters --------- Tee
TooMuchFun
09-09-2003, 09:22 AM
Tee -- thanks for website and contact ... I've talked with them, received their info., and investigated through others on the east coast. All second hand, but I have heard some pretty negative things re: the product (does not do what it claims re: restriction and noise reduction) and the company personnel so have stayed away.

TooMuchFun
MOWtown
09-10-2003, 09:35 AM
Just an FYI, like Kevin said, silent choice may become illegal here. I know it is currently illegal in some other North east states.
MOWtown
09-10-2003, 09:45 AM
This is more of a general statement than a technical answer: We've all previously discussed how rediculous this db enforcement policy is on a non-inhabited lake like Mead. The other complete oversight is that the damn jet skis make a far more annoying, high/low, inconsistent noise than these hi perf motors. I wonder if they've ever considered the jet ski noise. I'd much rather hear a pair of 502 at wot than the whiny skis. 2 cents
kevnmcd
09-10-2003, 10:00 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MOWtown @ Sep. 10 2003, 10:45 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is more of a general statement than a technical answer: We've all previously discussed how rediculous this db enforcement policy is on a non-inhabited lake like Mead. *The other complete oversight is that the damn jet skis make a far more annoying, high/low, inconsistent noise than these hi perf motors. *I wonder if they've ever considered the jet ski noise. *I'd much rather hear a pair of 502 at wot than the whiny skis. *2 cents[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Good point. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
digginfordollars
09-10-2003, 07:09 PM
We may not like the lake lice for whatever reason but we have to stick together with them or the tree hugger tactics of divide and conquer will work. First it's jet skis, then loud motors, then cranky fishermen. Pretty soon we belong to Las Vegas Kayak Club. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif
TooMuchFun
09-10-2003, 08:08 PM
Agreed on all posts ... I am redirecting silencer dollars toward a 1:59 gear in the lower unit and experimenting with prop setups, then working on tweaking heads and valves ... I'll worry about the noise challenge later and see what develops when I go to court on the ticket and as different muffler/silencer folks continue development efforts ... regattas to go to and performance to focus on http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

TooMuchFun
Essex502
09-11-2003, 06:01 AM
The noise ordinances are here to stay and we won't be able to avoid them. All we can hope is that the enforcement is "spotty" so we don't have to spend the money to reduce the hp and quiet the motors.

On another "note"...Havasu_Dreamin' and I (and others) took a ride on a 29' Essex Alandra on Saturday equipped with a HP500 and some kind of aftermarket exhaust that exited above the water line. This motor was LOUD! At 4500 RPM I couldn't here spoken words sitting on the bench seat in the back. Also, at idle standing in the water near the back of the boat it was much, much louder than our 502 - even louder that the 496's I think! Just commentary!
kevnmcd
09-11-2003, 06:50 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Sep. 11 2003, 07:01 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.... even louder that the 496's I think![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
TooMuchFun
09-16-2003, 07:58 PM
Three all day excursions at Mead and have not crossed paths with any water cops since my warning day and then ticket experience the following day out. Screw it ... I have sent the Hardin silencers back to the vendor, am taking Titties & Beer's advice and will test things in court to see if I can get the fine thrown out, and am waiting til next season til I even think about investigating throwing money at a silencer system. Too many fun boat toys to investigate before spending money to placate the cops, let alone gas and beer money. One set of silencers = four days on the lake +/-, moneywise if I don't break anything.

Loud and loving it for now http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

TooMuchFun
Essex502
09-17-2003, 05:26 AM
I doubt you'll beat the ticket in court but wish you the best of luck and hope you do. I beat many tickets by going to court in my youth just because the occifer (sp) failed to show up. These noise laws are almost identical now in most states and have prolly (sp) stood up well to court challenges. You might search the web for any advice in challenging the noise ticket in court.

Good luck!

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
titties and beer
09-18-2003, 07:38 PM
THANKS TOM ,the way i look at it is if you don't fight it,it makes it easy on the fish cops ,IT'S A FIX IT TICKET ! F#*K THEM,your making to much noise FIX IT.when your windows are to dark,do you get a ticket ?maybe after the 5th time ,SORRY THESE F*#K'N COPS ARE OUT LOOKING FOR $$$$$ and ANYTHING TO DO WITH POWER BOATS ! do you know how many mom and pops are out fishing and motoring around the lakes SHIT FACED.i can tell you i don't drink half as much as i used to just so i can tell one of these fish cops were to go.just my .02
kevnmcd
09-19-2003, 09:29 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (titties and beer @ Sep. 18 2003, 8:38 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">THANKS TOM ,the way i look at it is if you don't fight it,it makes it easy on the fish cops ,IT'S A FIX IT TICKET ! F#*K THEM,your making to much noise FIX IT.when your windows are to dark,do you get a ticket ?maybe after the 5th time ,SORRY THESE F*#K'N COPS ARE OUT LOOKING FOR $$$$$ and ANYTHING TO DO WITH POWER BOATS ! do you know how many mom and pops are out fishing and motoring around the lakes *SHIT FACED.i can tell you i don't drink half as much as i used to just so i can tell one of these fish cops were to go.just my .02[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Go get'em, T&B! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
titties and beer
09-22-2003, 04:27 PM
I TALKED TO 4 DIFFERENT BOATERS THIS WEEKEND(ALL BLOWN MOTORS) THEY WILL FIGHT IT,they said the law is not clear (fed -state),how far back ,what levels and so on .so lets plug up the courts with this B-S and after the judge gets his fill of this crap it will be gone, and go back to the beaners http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
TooMuchFun
09-22-2003, 07:53 PM
October 1 is my court date ... I'm inclined to test things a bit and see what happens rather than spend a bunch of cash on a silencer system that may hurt my engine performance. After court, I'll let folks know outcome one way or the other ...

TooMuchFun
Red Horse
09-23-2003, 07:15 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ Sep. 22 2003, 8:53 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">October 1 is my court date ... I'm inclined to test things a bit and see what happens rather than spend a bunch of cash on a silencer system that may hurt my engine performance. After court, I'll let folks know outcome one way or the other ...

TooMuchFun[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Should we have bail money in case you get a little mouthy in the courtroom!!!http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
TooMuchFun
09-23-2003, 10:23 AM
That's what my wife says http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Here's hoping not, but one never knows with these things.

TooMuchFun
Essex502
09-23-2003, 12:22 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (titties and beer @ Sep. 22 2003, 5:27 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I TALKED TO 4 DIFFERENT BOATERS THIS WEEKEND(ALL BLOWN MOTORS) THEY WILL FIGHT IT,they said the law is not clear (fed -state),how far back ,what levels and so on .so lets plug up the courts with this B-S and after the judge gets his fill *of this crap it will be gone, and go back to the beaners http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The laws on the state books are very clear. You guys are kidding yourselves into believing they are not. As I've stated before, the SAE J1970 (Shoreline test), SAE J34 (50' WOT noise test) and the newest SAE J2005 (idle at 1.5 meters) are the applicable standards in almost all states of the country. Today, J34 or J2005 are in effect in Arizona, California and Nevada.

Arizona = Misdemeanor, $500 Max fine
California = Infraction, $135 AND proof of correction
Nevada = Misdemeanor, $1000 and up to 6 months plut court fee.

Take this issue seriously!

Laws by State (http://www.marineparts.com/partspages/Corsa-Gil/noiselaws.htm)

While the above webpage may be a little out of date, the laws did not get any less strict.
TooMuchFun
09-23-2003, 01:06 PM
Essex 502 -- you're right on the legal point specification. I am simply going to court to prove intent to correct (I have a receipt for a silencer system that I have returned due to lack of compatibility with my engine application), ask gently for a waiving of fine as I have precedent that this has occurred if intent to correct is provided, and put off actual noise correction until the technology is such that I can have my cake and eat it too (no power or performance loss).

At present, IMCO makes a decent system that I have checked out on a set of >650 hp engines, and others are in development.

No flipping off the judge and going to jail for me ... it is more a function of working the system to my own desired ends.

TooMuchFun
Essex502
09-23-2003, 01:35 PM
You mean you're not gonna' do a Larry Flynt and wrap a U.S. flag around you like a diaper? That wouldn't go over to well since 9-11!

Be nice to the judge and beg his/her forgiveness! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif I think the whole situation sucks, personally! But all we can do is live with it unless we're prepared for violent overthrow of our government.
TooMuchFun
09-23-2003, 01:41 PM
My being a product of the 60s are about over ... property is no longer a crime for me and I find that while our system of governance has its flaws I prefer it to many parts of the world to be sure ... I'm hoping for a nice boating enthusiast judge that has just had a nice cup of coffee and is in a compromising and tolerant mood http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

TooMuchFun
titties and beer
09-23-2003, 01:43 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ Sep. 23 2003, 2:06 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Essex 502 -- you're right on the legal point specification. I am simply going to court to prove intent to correct (I have a receipt for a silencer system that I have returned due to lack of compatibility with my engine application), ask gently for a waiving of fine as I have precedent that this has occurred if intent to correct is provided, and put off actual noise correction until the technology is such that I can have my cake and eat it too (no power or performance loss).

At present, IMCO makes a decent system that I have checked out on a set of >650 hp engines, and others are in development.

No flipping off the judge and going to jail for me ... it is more a function of working the system to my own desired ends.

TooMuchFun[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
ya what he said http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Essex502
09-23-2003, 01:43 PM
Actually, what you REALLY want is the judge you who just had a nice cup of coffee and a BJ from his young nubile intern! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
titties and beer
09-23-2003, 03:00 PM
noooo ,thats what i want http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
TooMuchFun
11-08-2003, 08:33 AM
Two thoughts on the silencer situation, one for compliance and not hurting the engine, and one for arguing for noncompliance:

1. Livorsi Marine makes what they call an Outlaw series set of permanent silencer exhaust tips for engines 500 hp and up that provides for adequate flow to not impede WOT and acceleration due to flow impedence (i.e., the problems with the CP Performance setups), and not alter a potentialy richer burn and potential backpressure issues. www.livorsi.com and 847-548-5900

2. On the law, all is state legislated at present. Movement is toward federal legislation to provide umbrella and constitutionality for each state's noise legislation. However, and according to legal point, to legislate federally, one must prove convincingly and with economic data that the individual cost per consumer (when added up aggregately) to comply, is significantly less than the aggregate cost in damages due to incidents involving noncompliance (i.e., all the materials, hospital, and etc. costs for boat repair and human care). This is a general legal rule of thumb for any safety legislation. This cannot be compiled to make an adequate federal case for legislation for there are almost no accidents with human or material loss that are clearly due to noise levels (most typically the root cause is due to some other form of negligence), and the cost for each boat in the continental US to come into compliance is astronomical (i.e., $1000 +/- times all high performance boats in the US). Therefore, state legislation, while being put into place and intermittently enforced at the state level, is unconstitutional ... if one desires to fight the case legally through the court system, ultimately the fines and etc. must be reversed.

I'm going with the latter argument for awhile to see what happens. Points in item #2 are based on info. gathering through my brother who is an academy trained marine engineer and past legal arm for the feds for maritime cases (e.g., the Exxon Valdez, when a variety of big accidents occur in the San Francisco and LA areas, southwest states safety legislation, and etc.). He has been investigating through a variety of his cronies who are still in DC working on the applications that various states are putting through for federal noise legislation. Basically the feds are dropping the issue and leaving things to the states to sort out with response that the states do not have legitimate legal point to stand on if someone pursues this through the system.

Food for thought as folks store for the winter ...

TooMuchFun
KC & Karen
01-27-2004, 12:16 PM
BTTT.....

I just checked cpperformance.com, the price for these has not changed since I installed mine eight months ago. They clean up nice and work great, no performance hit.

410-282402
Essex502
01-27-2004, 12:29 PM
KC...I thought you went with inserts...the part number you gave is for the whole tips. Oops...went back and reread the thread and you did end up going to the full pieces not inserts.
KC & Karen
01-27-2004, 12:51 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Jan. 27 2004, 1:29 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC...I thought you went with inserts...the part number you gave is for the whole tips. Oops...went back and reread the thread and you did end up going to the full pieces not inserts.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I bought the inserts, took their picture and sent them back - way too restrictive for my taste. Through the transom is the only way to go!
Essex502
01-27-2004, 01:47 PM
Did you seal them using marine silicone? What about the baffles...I thought you said there weren't any.
kevnmcd
01-27-2004, 08:10 PM
I am waiting to see what Rex Marine is coming out with. I started a thread over on the "other" board and Mike from Rex said that they are coming out with something in the next month or so.

Mike said that it would be guaranteed to pass the noise test and there would be no hp loss. He also said it would be reasonably priced....not quite sure what that means. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif In any case, since I have until Jan. 2005 I am still waiting.
OutCole'd
01-27-2004, 08:19 PM
I am following this also. I would like to get something now that could be installed while the boat is being built. But I am which is the best way to go. KC seems happy with the product he used.
Tee
01-28-2004, 06:06 AM
I have been looking into this also. One solution I am incorporating into my new motor is an exhaust cross over. I got the fittings from Corsa. They are elbows that have a 3" outlet to go to the other exhaust pipe. Crossing them over just behind the headers. I think that the addition of allowing pressure to go to the other side exhaust and balancing the two will not create as much back pressure once I install mufflers. Hopefully this will lessen the loss of power when trying to comply with the LAW!!!
KC & Karen
01-28-2004, 06:40 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OutCole'd @ Jan. 27 2004, 9:19 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am following this also. I would like to get something now that could be installed while the boat is being built. But I am which is the best way to go. KC seems happy with the product he used.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Really happy with mine. The sound good, eliminated the sharpness of the bark on the 496HO, significantly quieter, and no loss or RPMs. The best part is that now I can have a conversation with Karen whil we are bombing across the lake, I can hear the whine of the gear drive over the roar of the motor, I can also carry on a conversation while pulling up to docks. Took me a few hours and a very large tube of silicon for the install - while there I sealed the insides of my transom where the original holes wer cut for the tips.

My boat is now different from everyone else, in that they will have plenty of other boats to choose from when generating revenue.
Essex502
01-28-2004, 06:42 AM
We've used the exhaust cross-over idea to add torque to trucks and cars in the past. Seems to boost low-end.
Essex502
01-28-2004, 06:45 AM
The new Family and Performance Boating has an article outline some of the choices available. They did some tests of a couple of silencers/mufflers. Pretty interesting. You should check it out. There are definitely technologies available to lower the noise upt to 10 dB-A with no loss of HP - but at what price?
beer hunter
01-28-2004, 07:30 AM
Is Nevada still enforcing their noise regulations?
OutCole'd
01-28-2004, 07:44 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Jan. 27 2004, 9:10 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am waiting to see what Rex Marine is coming out with. *I started a thread over on the "other" board and Mike from Rex said that they are coming out with something in the next month or so.

Mike said that it would be guaranteed to pass the noise test and there would be no hp loss. *He also said it would be reasonably priced....not quite sure what that means. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif * In any case, since I have until Jan. 2005 I am still waiting.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I heard from Mike at Rex last night, they expect to have their system done in 60-90 days. We will see.
kevnmcd
01-28-2004, 07:50 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OutCole'd @ Jan. 28 2004, 08:44 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Jan. 27 2004, 9:10 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am waiting to see what Rex Marine is coming out with. *I started a thread over on the "other" board and Mike from Rex said that they are coming out with something in the next month or so.

Mike said that it would be guaranteed to pass the noise test and there would be no hp loss. *He also said it would be reasonably priced....not quite sure what that means. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif * In any case, since I have until Jan. 2005 I am still waiting.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I heard from Mike at Rex last night, they expect to have their system done in 60-90 days. We will see.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is what I heard. I will wait and see, also. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Essex502
01-28-2004, 08:22 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Jan. 28 2004, 08:30 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is Nevada still enforcing their noise regulations?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Apparently, Nevada (Lake Mead) is one of the toughest on enforcement according the FP&B magazine. Better have the mufflers/silencers by June! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
beer hunter
01-28-2004, 08:40 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Jan. 28 2004, 09:22 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Jan. 28 2004, 08:30 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is Nevada still enforcing their noise regulations?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Apparently, Nevada (Lake Mead) is one of the toughest on enforcement according the FP&B magazine. Better have the mufflers/silencers by June! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I hope to http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif I don't want to deal with any B.S. from the local water cops and take the chance of them using any other meters (breathalyzer) http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I don't usually drink much while "on" the boat, but it's sometimes difficult to know how things would play out if I did have to blow in the tube http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
beer hunter
01-28-2004, 08:47 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FP&B magazine[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

What's this?
kevnmcd
01-28-2004, 08:49 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Jan. 28 2004, 09:47 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FP&B magazine[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

What's this?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Family Performance and Boating http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
beer hunter
01-28-2004, 08:53 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Jan. 28 2004, 09:49 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Family Performance and Boating *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'll have to check it out http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
TooMuchFun
01-28-2004, 08:54 AM
You folks considering mufflers (and I hope to avoid them, but may bite the bullet) should check out the Outlaw series for over 500hp engines. Permanent, good product, and no hp loss. I've seen them in operation and would go this route if I buy mufflers. It will probably take another ticket or three that is actually enforced before I do as the last one was thrown out in court.

Gaffrig products sold through Livorsi Marine ...

TooMuchFun
beer hunter
01-28-2004, 09:02 AM
I'll buy them if I can get a guarantee that they'll meet the noise requirements, otherwise what's the point http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
TooMuchFun
01-28-2004, 09:09 AM
Agreed with Beer Hunter ... the only reason I will go the Outlaw series route is that I have a db meter on board, it reads the same as the water cops meter, and I have tested a friends boat with the Outlaw series installed before and after. He was about 98 dbs on the idle test before and after brought him into compliance (88 +/- 1) ... runs similar engines as mine. Also no noticable rpm or WOT speed loss.

Whoever provides a guarantee is shining you on at this point ... all engines are different ...

TooMuchFun
beer hunter
01-28-2004, 09:18 AM
It would be nice to see Mercury Marine step up the plate and produce a muffler for their various engine packages that will meet the new noise regulations. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

This is a company that stands to lose some sales if their engines aren't in compliance with current noise regulation. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Essex502
01-28-2004, 09:26 AM
Mercury may be forced into it at some point. The boat manufacturers will not be allowed to sell a boat in 2005 (Calif. at least) that isn't muffled to the legal requirements. That's going to put the burden on either the engine manufacturer to supply the builders with engine packages that meet the laws OR the boat builders will have to get into the testing and certification business. Otherwise, they may (it remains to be seen how this will be enforced) be forced to not sell or deliver boats in California. Mercury and Volvo (for those few who use Volvo http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) will be pressured to provide quieter packages by the boat builders I would guess. This is admittedly a lot of supposition on my part, of course.
beer hunter
01-28-2004, 09:35 AM
That's about how I figure it will play out http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
TooMuchFun
01-28-2004, 10:16 AM
Agreed, and we are already beginning to see some boat manufacturers that are selling a high performance package with mufflers installed as part of that package. There was an example in HotBoat an issue or three ago (can't remember specifically). I would suspect that with all the muffler dealers now in business a deal will be struck between boat builder and muffler manufacturer, similar to the deals between boat builder and engine builder.

TooMuchFun
kevnmcd
01-28-2004, 10:58 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Jan. 28 2004, 10:02 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll buy them if I can get a guarantee that they'll meet the noise requirements, otherwise what's the point http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is what Mike @ Rex Marine is saying. They (Rex Marine) will guarantee that they will make our boats legal to the 2005 requirements and with no or very little hp loss. I am waiting to see. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
KC & Karen
01-28-2004, 10:59 AM
I still like mine!
beer hunter
01-28-2004, 11:04 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Jan. 28 2004, 11:58 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Jan. 28 2004, 10:02 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll buy them if I can get a guarantee that they'll meet the noise requirements, otherwise what's the point http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is what Mike @ Rex Marine is saying. *They (Rex Marine) will guarantee that they will make our boats legal to the 2005 requirements and with no or very little hp loss. *I am waiting to see. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I hope he has them available soon! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Essex502
01-28-2004, 11:49 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC &amp; Karen @ Jan. 28 2004, 11:59 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I still like mine![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You still may not be legal! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif We need to get a sound meter and test our boats...I thought someone had one...???
KC & Karen
01-28-2004, 11:53 AM
Here we go...... technology moves forward....

Aero-Turbine (http://www.aero-turbine.com)

Now these would be very cool if they wrapped a water jacket around the muffler, then again they would consume a good amount of engine bay. Anyone have any experience with Aero-Turbine mufflers on a car or truck?
Essex502
01-28-2004, 01:59 PM
Sounds like "voodoo" magic to me. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
TooMuchFun
01-28-2004, 07:56 PM
Essex 502 -- I have a sound meter. Calibrated it to the Water Cops readings when I got ticketed. I always carry it on board if you see me out on the lake ... one more toy to play with http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

TooMuchFun
Essex502
01-29-2004, 06:03 AM
Cool. It would be interesting to test the various boats. I'm interested just how loud my boat is since the exhaust exits underwater when at rest. I know the driveby test it will fail but the idle test might be pretty close to legal.
TooMuchFun
01-29-2004, 09:03 AM
Agreed ... I was surprised at how little noise the stipulated legal limits are. I'm about 96-98 at idle (exhausts above water), and at WOT in the cockpit I am around 108 +/- 2. On an exponentially expanding or contracting curve (i.e., dbs), things get pretty quiet at 88 dbs. Your ultra quiet, exhaust through the drive, 300 hp ballpark series production volvo or merc engine, that is new ... those you can barely hear at idle ... test in the low 80s.

TooMuchFun
Essex502
01-29-2004, 10:37 AM
I believe the scale to be logarithmic so it's not as bad as one might think. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif Still sucks.
FUN4ME
01-29-2004, 12:01 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ Jan. 29 2004, 10:03 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Agreed ... I was surprised at how little noise the stipulated legal limits are. I'm about 96-98 at idle (exhausts above water), and at WOT in the cockpit I am around 108 +/- 2.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I know who I am following at the regatta http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
at least in the marina http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Essex502
01-29-2004, 01:45 PM
Ya' know what would be interesting...to use the J2005 test and measure a few other types of combustion sources such as diesel wheelers, pickup trucks, cars, etc. I wonder what they would read?

Equivalents:

0 dB Threshold of hearing
20 dB Rustling leaves
30 dB Quiet whisper (3 feet)
40 dB Quiet home
50 dB Quiet street
60 dB Normal conversation
70 dB Inside car
75 dB Loud singing (3 feet)
80 dB Automobile (25 feet)
88 dB Motorcycle (30 feet)
90 dB Foodblender (3 feet)
94 dB Subway (inside)
100 dB Diesel truck (30 feet)
107 dB Power mower (3 feet)
115 dB Pneumatic riveter (3 feet)
117 dB Chainsaw (3 feet)
120 dB Amplified Rock and Roll (6 feet)
130 dB Jet plane (100 feet)

Something to think about that our boats are limited to the same noise level at 50 feet (75 dB) as loud singing at three feet.
Cracy Racing
01-31-2004, 05:30 PM
the slip in's are under $80.00 per set. Sorry KC $500 + per set is way over my budget, not to mention with twins. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KC & Karen
01-31-2004, 06:27 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cracy Racing @ Jan. 31 2004, 6:30 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the slip in's are under $80.00 per set. Sorry KC $500 + per set is way over my budget, not to mention with twins. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
dude what has been going on!!
Cracy Racing
01-31-2004, 10:53 PM
had to get married, remodel house, get lucky, and live in general..... haven't even looked at the hallett since june. found a bad carb and distributor. guess on which engine. anyway we are trying to get it all together again and will make it to the soonest possible event..... we missed you all!!!!
but we're back..
Red Horse
01-31-2004, 11:20 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cracy Racing @ Jan. 31 2004, 11:53 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">had to get married, remodel house, get lucky, and live in general..... *haven't even looked at the hallett since june. found a bad carb and distributor. guess on which engine. anyway we are trying to get it all together again and will make it to the soonest possible event..... we missed you all!!!!
but we're back..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It is about damn time. Check in here every once in a while. And be at the June event. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
beer hunter
02-01-2004, 05:23 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Horse @ Feb. 01 2004, 12:20 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cracy Racing @ Jan. 31 2004, 11:53 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">had to get married, remodel house, get lucky, and live in general..... *haven't even looked at the hallett since june. found a bad carb and distributor. guess on which engine. anyway we are trying to get it all together again and will make it to the soonest possible event..... we missed you all!!!!
but we're back..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It is about damn time. Check in here every once in a while. And be at the June event. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Wow, last time I remember you posting was around last March http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Like Red Horse said, Check in here every once in a while. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Cracy Racing
02-02-2004, 08:42 PM
we're back http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
red_n_vegas
02-03-2004, 06:27 AM
my god man ...good to see you back on the boards.
KC & Karen
02-03-2004, 12:33 PM
Welcome back! We wondered how long you'd be in hiding!!!
KC_Nelson
03-22-2004, 06:26 AM
bttt...
kevnmcd
03-22-2004, 06:47 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Mar. 22 2004, 07:26 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">bttt...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/huh.gif
Essex502
03-22-2004, 07:30 AM
Y-not?
KC_Nelson
03-22-2004, 08:01 AM
Look out - CAT FIGHT!!
kevnmcd
03-22-2004, 08:35 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Mar. 22 2004, 09:01 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Look out - CAT FIGHT!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Nope.....I was just wondering why you brought this back up to the top? Was it cuz we were discussing doing some sound testing this weekend? or did you have something to add to this?
Essex502
03-22-2004, 09:23 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Mar. 22 2004, 09:01 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Look out - CAT FIGHT!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm a "dog" or so my wife keeps telling me... http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KC_Nelson
03-28-2004, 07:33 PM
Essex502, Mike can you post the testing results from this weekend. I'm interested in knowing the difference between my boat and Kurts.
Essex502
03-29-2004, 06:04 AM
Wellllll.......

Testing that was done - on request...

KC's Heat with a 496, above water exhaust and silencers- 89 dB-A

HavasuHome/Havasu Dreamin' Alandra (dubbed the QT) with 525 above water exhaust - no silencers - 100 dB-A

Essex502 Sterling with 502 Mag and below water exhaust no silencers - 84 dB-A

That's all - didn't get a chance or requests for any additional boats.
KC_Nelson
03-29-2004, 06:08 AM
Thanks, I'm happy to see that my ride is closer to the unerwater exhaust of the Sterling. I'd bet that Kurts and Beerhunters boats are pushing 100, with Kevins close behind those numbers.
Essex502
03-29-2004, 07:13 AM
From just an untrained ear...the HP525 is a lot louder than the 496HO. The HP500 is somewhere in between the two with the 502 nearer the 496HO. The swimstep architechture is - I guessing - also crucial to the sound reverberating and amplifying the noise level. I took the Sterling measurement standing on the swimstep - even closer than the 1 meter required by the J2005 standard. Interestingly enough...the same dB level was present on the HP525 at the 1 meter distance at water level and up to 4' above the water level.

I am going to try the noise test again on the 502 with the drive in the water while on the trailer with the exhaust above the water just to get another test into the mix.
KC_Nelson
03-29-2004, 07:17 AM
We got to get a test on Kurts boat so that we can document the difference with the silencers!! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
kevnmcd
03-29-2004, 07:20 AM
Maybe we can get a reading on mine next time. I still think I am a tad quieter than BH's boat.
KC_Nelson
03-29-2004, 07:23 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Mar. 29 2004, 10:20 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe we can get a reading on mine next time. *I still think I am a tad quieter than BH's boat.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If it makes it to the lake.....

If it runs once it gets to the lake.....

If you don't drop the digital meter device into the drink.....
Essex502
03-29-2004, 07:50 AM
I won't let kevin hold the digital noise meter! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
kevnmcd
03-29-2004, 08:47 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Mar. 29 2004, 08:23 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Mar. 29 2004, 10:20 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe we can get a reading on mine next time. *I still think I am a tad quieter than BH's boat.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If it makes it to the lake.....

If it runs once it gets to the lake.....

If you don't drop the digital meter device into the drink.....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

One F*cking time it has problems and your labeled! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif As soon as I get the injectors out and cleaned it will be good as new.

Just for the record....I ran the whole time, just let a fuel slick behind it and loaded up under 3000 rpms! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
red_n_vegas
03-29-2004, 09:37 AM
would you like to use my Boats name for a while?..Tow-Me-Home...or in your case Almost Tow Me Home http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
kevnmcd
03-29-2004, 10:41 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (red_n_vegas @ Mar. 29 2004, 10:37 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">would you like to use my Boats name for a while?..Tow-Me-Home...or in your case Almost Tow Me Home http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Never had to be towed! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Essex502
03-29-2004, 11:31 AM
Yet? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
KC_Nelson
03-29-2004, 12:04 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Mar. 29 2004, 1:41 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (red_n_vegas @ Mar. 29 2004, 10:37 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">would you like to use my Boats name for a while?..Tow-Me-Home...or in your case Almost Tow Me Home http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Never had to be towed! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Your right, it was the other Eliminator that I HAD TO TOW THE HATCH COVER, not the boat..... http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Essex502
03-29-2004, 12:07 PM
KC - I bought one of those battery Combiners on Sunday at West Marine...great advice!
beer hunter
03-29-2004, 01:34 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Mar. 29 2004, 08:20 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe we can get a reading on mine next time. *I still think I am a tad quieter than BH's boat.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Probably, I know I'm a lot louder than Kurt's boat and KC's is quiter than Kurt's and still just over the limit at 89 db http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
KC_Nelson
03-29-2004, 02:43 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Mar. 29 2004, 3:07 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC - I bought one of those battery Combiners on Sunday at West Marine...great advice![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Simple straight forward good idea, spendy but worth not having to think about wearing down my cranking battery, smaller and cheaper than multiple diode isolaters.
OutCole'd
03-29-2004, 05:18 PM
So at 100 dbs, it looks like I may be just a little illegal.
Essex502
03-30-2004, 05:31 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OutCole'd @ Mar. 29 2004, 6:18 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So at 100 dbs, it looks like I may be just a little illegal.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You should be alright in Havasu until they begin enforcing it. CA you have until January 1, 2005. Get the silencers/mufflers and forget it. Rex Marine is supposed to be developing a killer set.
Music to my Ears
03-30-2004, 06:05 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Mar. 29 2004, 08:17 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We got to get a test on Kurts boat so that we can document the difference with the silencers!! * *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Definetely! It's amazing how much difference there is having the tips above water versus partially submerged. I think we'll find that BH boat is quite a bit louder than the Nordics. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Essex502
03-30-2004, 06:39 AM
I was amazed at the 100 dB-A reading we got on HavasuHome's boat! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif I never expected it to be that high on a stock motor - even if it came from Mercury Racing! Next time you guys are there just make sure and remind me as I'll be keeping the meter in the boat.
TooMuchFun
03-30-2004, 06:54 AM
Essex502 -- "supposed to be developing" is an accurate characterization. I have not found one set of silencer systems that does not potentially effect a detrimental back pressure situation, cut hp and wot performance, or risk damage to stock engines over 500hp. I'm not going to risk hurting a high dollar engine because some laws are potentially going into effect. Verdict is still out as to whether or not they are enforceable, with Federal disposition in favor of not enforcing, and technological development has not caught up with potential legislation.

TooMuchFun
beer hunter
03-30-2004, 08:49 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Music to my Ears @ Mar. 30 2004, 07:05 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Mar. 29 2004, 08:17 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We got to get a test on Kurts boat so that we can document the difference with the silencers!! * *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Definetely! It's amazing how much difference there is having the tips above water versus partially submerged. I think we'll find that BH boat is quite a bit louder than the Nordics. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'll agree with that statement Kurt, my boat seems a lot louder than yours http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif My only hope is that someone can develop a silencer that will get me at or under the 88db limit without strangling the motor http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
OutCole'd
03-30-2004, 09:29 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Mar. 30 2004, 05:31 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OutCole'd @ Mar. 29 2004, 6:18 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So at 100 dbs, it looks like I may be just a little illegal.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You should be alright in Havasu until they begin enforcing it. CA you have until January 1, 2005. Get the silencers/mufflers and forget it. Rex Marine is supposed to be developing a killer set.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is what I am waiting for, But I have been hearing about it for a while, I hope it is soon.
Essex502
03-30-2004, 10:28 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ Mar. 30 2004, 07:54 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Essex502 -- "supposed to be developing" is an accurate characterization. I have not found one set of silencer systems that does not potentially effect a detrimental back pressure situation, cut hp and wot performance, or risk damage to stock engines over 500hp. I'm not going to risk hurting a high dollar engine because some laws are potentially going into effect. Verdict is still out as to whether or not they are enforceable, with Federal disposition in favor of not enforcing, and technological development has not caught up with potential legislation.

TooMuchFun[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree with you...to lower the noise there must be some loss of hp even if you can't feel it in the seat of you pants. I'd love to see some dyno specs on these silencers/mufflers that claim otherwise. Noise pulses cancelling each other might work but that's a lot more sophisticated than most backyard marine designers/engineers can develop - no character assasination intended. I don't know about engine damage as I've never seen that on a motor either on the drag strip or otherwise when a muffling device is applied to the exhaust.

As to enforceable...I think in isolated instances that an individual judge with the right proclivities might toss the citation but I doubt very seriously that they are un-enforceble. Look at CA smog rules which are very much enforced singularly in CA. Jurisdictional issue may arise from somewhere like Mead or Powel but I'd bet you'll find few sympathetic judges willing to toss these when CA starts enforcing.

And...folks...it will be enforced in CA in the ocean within CA waters which extend pretty far offshore.
Essex502
03-30-2004, 10:29 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OutCole'd @ Mar. 30 2004, 10:29 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Mar. 30 2004, 05:31 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So at 100 dbs, it looks like I may be just a little illegal.<span id='postcolor'>
You should be alright in Havasu until they begin enforcing it. CA you have until January 1, 2005. Get the silencers/mufflers and forget it. Rex Marine is supposed to be developing a killer set.[/quote]
This is what I am waiting for, But I have been hearing about it for a while, I hope it is soon.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KC's work pretty damn good as I heard the boat before and after though I don't have the "before" measurements. Testing Kurt's boat will give us a good reference.

Kurt...when are you going to be back in LHC?
kevnmcd
03-30-2004, 10:46 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Mar. 30 2004, 09:49 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll agree with that statement Kurt, my boat seems a lot louder than yours http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif *My only hope is that someone can develop a silencer that will get me at or under the 88db limit without strangling the motor http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is why I am waiting to see what Rex Marine is coming out with. Mike (Rex) says that his silencers will do just that! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif He also said that they will be priced affordable...whatever that means. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/huh.gif
kevnmcd
03-30-2004, 10:48 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Mar. 30 2004, 11:29 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kurt...when are you going to be back in LHC?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
April 17 - 19. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Music to my Ears
03-30-2004, 11:01 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Mar. 30 2004, 11:48 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Mar. 30 2004, 11:29 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kurt...when are you going to be back in LHC?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
April 17 - 19. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Correct. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Essex502
03-30-2004, 11:15 AM
We'll miss that weekend...our next is April 9/10/11 then skip to May 7/8/9 then May 21/22/23 and so on....
Rivercrazy
03-30-2004, 11:37 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Mar. 30 2004, 1:46 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Mar. 30 2004, 09:49 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll agree with that statement Kurt, my boat seems a lot louder than yours http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif *My only hope is that someone can develop a silencer that will get me at or under the 88db limit without strangling the motor http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is why I am waiting to see what Rex Marine is coming out with. *Mike (Rex) says that his silencers will do just that! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif *He also said that they will be priced affordable...whatever that means. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/huh.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm also waiting eagerly to see what the deal is with this new product....
kevnmcd
03-30-2004, 11:39 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rivercrazy @ Mar. 30 2004, 12:37 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Mar. 30 2004, 1:46 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll agree with that statement Kurt, my boat seems a lot louder than yours http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif *My only hope is that someone can develop a silencer that will get me at or under the 88db limit without strangling the motor http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>
That is why I am waiting to see what Rex Marine is coming out with. *Mike (Rex) says that his silencers will do just that! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif *He also said that they will be priced affordable...whatever that means. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/huh.gif[/quote]
I'm also waiting eagerly to see what the deal is with this new product....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If it does what he says it will......guaranteed to reduce the noise level below the limits with no HP loss...and is priced where he has said it will, then I will be all over it. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Havasu Dreamin
03-30-2004, 11:44 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Mar. 29 2004, 07:04 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HavasuHome/Havasu Dreamin' Alandra (dubbed the QT) with 525 above water exhaust - no silencers - 100 dB-A[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I know I missed the weekend so why is it dubbed the QT? I figure since I own half of it I should at least know why it's got a nickname? LMAO http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Essex502
03-30-2004, 12:22 PM
"Q"uiet "T"ime = QT. Right Bill? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
TooMuchFun
03-30-2004, 08:24 PM
Essex502 -- a couple thoughts. All I know on potential engine damage is that my builder/mechanics have told me not to put them on until the technology improves due to the potential for back pressure issues that will create problems running at high load and potential damage. On the legalities, with smog, case law has proven that the damage incurred from smog production far outweighs the cost of requiring preventives (i.e., on the engine and through smog checks) in terms of pure dollar expense comparisons. This is the federal test, legally. In relation to silencers on boats, a case must be made, legally, that the total aggregate cost to the consumer for requiring silencers is less than the total expense in terms of accidents and pollution and etc. Cost analyses have been conducted at the federal level, and the numbers simply do not meet the legal test ... i.e., the cost for all of us to put on 1k +/- add ons to each of our boats does not equal the cost in accidents and etc., and a case may not be made for pollution expense ... it's simply noise. If someone appeals far enough once fines begin, it will be thrown out. I'm therefore going to hang back and put off silencers and push a bit if I get fined and go to court. It costs me almost nothing to file an appeal and write case law response myself, and provides a bit of a hobby to as my kids tell me, "rail against the man". http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. The old radical without a cause in me.

PS -- As with other issues such as finding shades of grey with my taxes and etc., some of my more conservative friends tell me that jail does provide a sense of closure on many issues. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

TooMuchFun
TooMuchFun
03-30-2004, 08:24 PM
Essex502 -- a couple thoughts. All I know on potential engine damage is that my builder/mechanics have told me not to put them on until the technology improves due to the potential for back pressure issues that will create problems running at high load and potential damage. On the legalities, with smog, case law has proven that the damage incurred from smog production far outweighs the cost of requiring preventives (i.e., on the engine and through smog checks) in terms of pure dollar expense comparisons. This is the federal test, legally. In relation to silencers on boats, a case must be made, legally, that the total aggregate cost to the consumer for requiring silencers is less than the total expense in terms of accidents and pollution and etc. Cost analyses have been conducted at the federal level, and the numbers simply do not meet the legal test ... i.e., the cost for all of us to put on 1k +/- add ons to each of our boats does not equal the cost in accidents and etc., and a case may not be made for pollution expense ... it's simply noise. If someone appeals far enough once fines begin, it will be thrown out. I'm therefore going to hang back and put off silencers and push a bit if I get fined and go to court. It costs me almost nothing to file an appeal and write case law response myself, and provides a bit of a hobby to as my kids tell me, "rail against the man". http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. The old radical without a cause in me.

PS -- As with other issues such as finding shades of grey with my taxes and etc., some of my more conservative friends tell me that jail does provide a sense of closure on many issues. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

TooMuchFun
TooMuchFun
03-30-2004, 08:25 PM
Sorry ... messages seem to be coming through twice once sent???

Too Much Fun
Essex502
03-31-2004, 06:17 AM
I wish you luck TMF but you might be the Don Quixote of the noise laws. Gas powered Leaf blowers were banned in Los Angeles purely on noise pollution and that's the crux of the tree-huggers promoting mufflers on boats. Don't get me wrong as I hate the idea of muffler boats but I think in the long term the states can do what they want in regulating noise. Noise laws have been on the books a long, long time.

Good luck though and I support your cause completely!

BTW - Check this crap out:

Quiet Lakes (http://www.nonoise.org/quietlakes/newhome.htm)
TooMuchFun
03-31-2004, 06:32 AM
You're probably right on the Don Quixote perspective, but I like deluding myself and sometimes enjoy a good fight ... sort of like the John Travolta movie where he is an Angel ... out in the field with the bull loving "battle" http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. The tree huggers are also much more organized to be sure ... not too many websites asking for contributions to loudest big block development http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif.

TooMuchFun
Essex502
03-31-2004, 06:41 AM
I think the John Travolta movie was "Michael" - Great film. Yep, the tree huggers are well organized well funded and pervasive! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
KC_Nelson
08-02-2004, 10:32 AM
BTTT
Essex502
08-02-2004, 10:40 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Aug. 02 2004, 11:32 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTTT[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KC - You would fail the "arbitrary" too loud noise as well in the marina - even with those silencers!
KC_Nelson
08-02-2004, 07:58 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Aug. 02 2004, 11:40 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Aug. 02 2004, 11:32 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTTT[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KC - You would fail the "arbitrary" too loud noise as well in the marina - even with those silencers![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
From the sound of the BS, you might also!!
Essex502
08-03-2004, 05:31 AM
We tested at 86 db with me hanging off the swim step holding on to the handle on the back of the transom...remember our exhaust is underwater at idle! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif You will pass if the test is administered per the AZ SAE J34 procedure which is 86 decibels at ANY throttle @ 50'. Since the Marina is a no wake zone the only way they can test you is at idle or force you to rev the motor will monitoring a noise meter.
beer hunter
08-09-2004, 03:45 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ Mar. 31 2004, 07:32 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The tree huggers are also much more organized to be sure ... not too many websites asking for contributions to loudest big block development http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif.

TooMuchFun[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Maybe the some of these do-good tree huggers can establish a fund to help pay for silencers on all of our boats. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Red Horse
08-09-2004, 05:10 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Mar. 31 2004, 07:17 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wish you luck TMF but you might be the Don Quixote of the noise laws. Gas powered Leaf blowers were banned in Los Angeles purely on noise pollution and that's the crux of the tree-huggers promoting mufflers on boats. Don't get me wrong as I hate the idea of muffler boats but I think in the long term the states can do what they want in regulating noise. Noise laws have been on the books a long, long time.

Good luck though and I support your cause completely!

BTW - Check this crap out:

Quiet Lakes (http://www.nonoise.org/quietlakes/newhome.htm)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I sent these people a little note in their own comment form. Wonder if I get a response.

Here it is.

All of the people trying to limit others fun!!! Leave me and my big block alone. I have a right to make noise and you have a right to peace and quiet. So let’s learn to live together and deal with it. Out right banning something because you don’t like it or understand it is wrong. Kayaks and canoes irritate me. But they shouldn’t be banned. It is their right to be quiet slow and paddling!! It is also my right to be loud, fast and gas burning!!! Long live thru hull exhaust. That is my music.
Essex502
08-09-2004, 06:13 AM
Couldn't hurt I guess. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
TooMuchFun
08-09-2004, 07:58 AM
Be interesting to see the responses http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

I find that most of those folks are only tolerant of the things they do or believe, but are the most intolerant of what they disagree with ... sort of like a modern day crusade ... maybe they'll show up at your door one night and make you a martyr http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

TooMuchFun
KC_Nelson
02-10-2005, 07:04 AM
bttt
kevnmcd
02-10-2005, 08:52 AM
KC - When you installed these...what were the results? How much did it reduce the db's? How much top end did you lose?
KC_Nelson
02-10-2005, 10:45 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 10 2005, 09:52 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC - When you installed these...what were the results? *How much did it reduce the db's? *How much top end did you lose?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
More than you ever wanted to know about the Hardin Marine Slip-In Silencers….

I bought both the slip-in and the replacement tips so I could get a good look at them and post the pics for others to see.

Nordic uses a silencer tip made by Rex Marine, with built in internal flappers that are mounted near the motor end of the tip. They are noisy as all get up and sound like a beer can rattling around in the bilge. If I remember correctly, the slip-in will not fit inside the Rex due to the internal flapper – my boat had one flapper blown out so it was easy to explore the possibility of installing the slip-in.

A visual review of the slip-in leaves you with the understanding of how it works to defuse sound while attempting to minimize restriction of exhaust flow. It creates a cup that bounces the pulse waves back into the exhaust system, thus canceling out some of the sound, and redirects the flow around the cup to further defuse the pulse. The redirection creates some restriction, but if you do the math you’ll discover the size/surface of the redirection slits is almost the same as the area of the diameter of the tip.

With the slips in you need to drill a hole in your existing tips for the securing bolt. On Kurts boat, we will probably remove the existing tips in order to knock out the internal flappers and drill the hole for the securing bolt. The securing bolt will end up on the outside, where the external rubber flapper is currently mounted – it can not be inside of the hull because then the nitrate hoses will not fit onto the tip with the bolt head being there. Due to the length of the slip in, and the securing bolt, there is not enough room to re-install the external rubber flappers.

I decided to spend a little more money for the silencer tips, the tips use the same design as the slip in but the tips have an expansion chamber that is five inches in diameter, and the slits for the redirection are larger to help with flow.

The slip in will be more restrictive then an open exhaust and you will lose a little off of the top end, but you won’t notice it unless your racing beer hunter or essex502.

We are going to take the time to do a really good job on Mr. Music’s awesome ride.

According to E502 my tips are legal, the slip-in should be very close to legal. The best part is that I can now carry on a conversation with the boat under way, and I can carry on a conversation with a person standing on the dock. as an additional benefit, I can now hear the suttle whurl of my outdrive.
KC_Nelson
02-10-2005, 10:48 AM
As we have discussed before, the objective is to not draw attention of the laws to your boat....
kevnmcd
02-10-2005, 01:05 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Feb. 10 2005, 11:45 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The slip in will be more restrictive then an open exhaust and you will lose a little off of the top end, but you won’t notice it unless your racing beer hunter or essex502.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am not worried about BH....I got a couple of MPH on him anyways! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smilie_auslachen.gif

Thanks for the info. I am looking at a couple of options, but the best one so far is the inline silencers from Eddie Marine for $119. No way do I want to spend $800 for the Rex Marine ones.
KC_Nelson
02-10-2005, 02:31 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 10 2005, 2:05 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Feb. 10 2005, 11:45 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The slip in will be more restrictive then an open exhaust and you will lose a little off of the top end, but you won’t notice it unless your racing beer hunter or essex502.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am not worried about BH....I got a couple of MPH on him anyways! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smilie_auslachen.gif

Thanks for the info. *I am looking at a couple of options, but the best one so far is the inline silencers from Eddie Marine for $119. *No way do I want to spend $800 for the Rex Marine ones.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Look at the inlines carefully, might not work if you have S pipes.
kevnmcd
02-10-2005, 02:50 PM
Good point, fortunately, I don't have the S pipes...mine is the straight through exhaust.
titties and beer
02-10-2005, 04:03 PM
BIG write up in H/B MAG this month looks like were going to drop some more$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif
digginfordollars
02-10-2005, 05:14 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (titties and beer @ Feb. 10 2005, 5:03 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BIG write up in H/B MAG this month looks like were going to drop some more$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You got your mag already? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cussing.gif
kevnmcd
02-10-2005, 07:17 PM
After reading the write up in HB, I am going the cheap route. Bought a pair of inline silencers from Eddie Marine. The double X ones. They (HB) are claiming only a 50 rpm decrease at WOT and it gets it legal. Best bang for the buck! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Still pissed I have to do anything, though. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
Music to my Ears
02-10-2005, 07:22 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 10 2005, 8:17 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After reading the write up in HB, I am going the cheap route. *Bought a pair of inline silencers from Eddie Marine. *The double X ones. *They (HB) are claiming only a 50 rpm decrease at WOT and it gets it legal. Best bang for the buck! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif *Still pissed I have to do anything, though. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was hoping to get this info before I ordered the Hardin slip- ins. Looks like the Eddie Marine inlines might be the way to go. The info on the Hardin slipins didn't make it in the write-up.
titties and beer
02-10-2005, 07:51 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (digginfordollars @ Feb. 10 2005, 7:14 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (titties and beer @ Feb. 10 2005, 5:03 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BIG write up in H/B MAG this month looks like were going to drop some more$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You got your mag already? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cussing.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
3 days ago http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumb.gif
OutCole'd
02-10-2005, 08:00 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 10 2005, 2:05 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Feb. 10 2005, 11:45 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The slip in will be more restrictive then an open exhaust and you will lose a little off of the top end, but you won’t notice it unless your racing beer hunter or essex502.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am not worried about BH....I got a couple of MPH on him anyways! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smilie_auslachen.gif

Thanks for the info. *I am looking at a couple of options, but the best one so far is the inline silencers from Eddie Marine for $119. *No way do I want to spend $800 for the Rex Marine ones.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Kev, any pics of these? I need to figure what the hell i'm going to do.
kevnmcd
02-10-2005, 10:09 PM
Bill - This is what they look like....4" OD and 6" L

http://www.eddiemarine.com/Cart/Pictures/102_13.jpg

You can read about them here. (http://www.eddiemarine.com/Cart/details.asp?SubCategoryID=806&CategoryID=)
kevnmcd
02-10-2005, 10:09 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Music to my Ears @ Feb. 10 2005, 8:22 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 10 2005, 8:17 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After reading the write up in HB, I am going the cheap route. *Bought a pair of inline silencers from Eddie Marine. *The double X ones. *They (HB) are claiming only a 50 rpm decrease at WOT and it gets it legal. Best bang for the buck! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif *Still pissed I have to do anything, though. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was hoping to get this info before I ordered the Hardin slip- ins. Looks like the Eddie Marine inlines might be the way to go. The info on the Hardin slipins didn't make it in the write-up.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Kurt - I beleive they are almost identical.
OutCole'd
02-11-2005, 04:56 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 10 2005, 11:09 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bill - This is what they look like....4" OD and 6" L

http://www.eddiemarine.com/Cart/Pictures/102_13.jpg

You can read about them here. (http://www.eddiemarine.com/Cart/details.asp?SubCategoryID=806&CategoryID=)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thanks Kev. I will check those out also.
KC_Nelson
02-11-2005, 07:07 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Music to my Ears @ Feb. 10 2005, 8:22 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 10 2005, 8:17 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After reading the write up in HB, I am going the cheap route. *Bought a pair of inline silencers from Eddie Marine. *The double X ones. *They (HB) are claiming only a 50 rpm decrease at WOT and it gets it legal. Best bang for the buck! *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif *Still pissed I have to do anything, though. *http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was hoping to get this info before I ordered the Hardin slip- ins. Looks like the Eddie Marine inlines might be the way to go. The info on the Hardin slipins didn't make it in the write-up.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Kurt, the inlines won't fit on a Nordic 28.
Havasu Dreamin
02-11-2005, 08:13 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 10 2005, 11:09 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bill - This is what they look like....4" OD and 6" L

http://www.eddiemarine.com/Cart/Pictures/102_13.jpg

You can read about them here. (http://www.eddiemarine.com/Cart/details.asp?SubCategoryID=806&CategoryID=)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Bill, I believe that Gentry, H20Advantage, is going with an inline solution on the new 28 Advantage he is having built. He's running the 525 as well so that would probably be a good comparison for you.
OutCole'd
02-11-2005, 12:55 PM
Thanks Scott. I will have to check it out. I have not seen my boat in months and forget what my set up looks like. I have pictures of everything else, but no shots of the exhaust after the boat was built. Time to go to havasu I guess.
Havasu Dreamin
02-11-2005, 01:00 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OutCole'd @ Feb. 11 2005, 1:55 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thanks Scott. I will have to check it out.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
no problem, us blue motor guys need to stick together. <span style='font-size:7.25pt;line-height:100%'>and commiserate about how much the blue motors cost</span> http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/Wow1.gif
Music to my Ears
02-11-2005, 02:19 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Feb. 11 2005, 08:07 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kurt, the inlines won't fit on a Nordic 28.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thanks KC. We'll try the Hardin slipins and see how it goes. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif